I am looking at buying a 12 week old female lab need help

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I am looking at buying a 12 week old female lab need help

Post by Vsnqst20 » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 09:31:40



Has paper from a breeder in Nebraska, but is in a pet shop in Dunkirk MD.
Papers go back 5 generations.  Is a black lab.  Would it be considered wise to
get this dog from pet shop.
 
 
 

I am looking at buying a 12 week old female lab need help

Post by TRISHCA » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:12:05


Quote:

>Would it be considered wise to
>get this dog from pet shop.

Nope.  No responsible breeder would ever sell to a pet store, but puppy mills
do.  When you buy from a pet store, you support puppy mills.  Know that most
likely, those other generations lived horrible lives in cages pumping out
puppies as fast as they could until they were no longer useful.  It's an ugly
scenario, but it's true.   And papers are nothing more than a birth
certificate.

Trish

 
 
 

I am looking at buying a 12 week old female lab need help

Post by John » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:41:47


I'd have to question why a breeders pup from Nebraska would end up in
Maryland? In a pet shop, no less?
Anybody that breeds dogs, responsible breeder or puppy mill can easily have
papers just by sending in the AKC registration, generation after generation.
Papers don't mean a thing if all that's done is breed, breed and breed. Do
any of the ancestors have any field, breed or obedience titles?

  As Trish said, a responsible breeders pup would not be found in a pet shop
... NEVER!

 There must be a responsible breeder somewhere near you. Go through the
proper steps to 1) find a breeder 2) do a little research on the breed,
breeder and line of dogs 3) get in touch with a breeder and let them know
what you are looking for 4) don't rush it ... take your time and be sure you
want a puppy and what you want in a puppy/dog (they aren't puppies long,
they become big dogs pretty quick). If that breeder doesn't have any pups
available, they most likely will be able to point you in the direction of a
breeder that does or will in the future (I'd question if they didn't help
you out).

  Would it be wise to get the pet shop dog? Somebody probably will and
hopefully it'll get a good home ... and a few days later the pet shop will
get another puppy mill dog.

  I wouldn't get it! To many unknowns and it'll only promote more of the
same.


Quote:
> Has paper from a breeder in Nebraska, but is in a pet shop in Dunkirk MD.
> Papers go back 5 generations.  Is a black lab.  Would it be considered
wise to
> get this dog from pet shop.

 
 
 

I am looking at buying a 12 week old female lab need help

Post by KrisHu » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:10:25



snip

Quote:
>  And papers are nothing more than a birth
> certificate.

> Trish

And sometimes they're forged, a local woman who has Ch. field goldens told a
neighbor of mine that she found out a puppymill was putting her dog's name
down as the sire and had been doing so for years. She's in the process of
suing.

When reading a pedigree on a prospective puppy be sure to look for the
following:

The "parents" and "grandparents", at least, on both sides should have both
OFA (hips and elbows) and CERF (eyes) ratings. Labs are prone to genetic hip
and elbow problems that irresponsible breeders don't x-ray for or may breed
a poorly rated dog anyway. On a pedigree, it looks like this: OFA60E,
E=excellent and 60 is how many months old the dog was at the time of
testing. The more current the test, the better as HD (hip displaysia) can
take time to develop. You don't want to see a sire who is 5 that was last
certified at 2 years old. The test should only be 1 or 2 years old, you want
to see excellent, good or, at worst, fair.

OFA's website will let you put in the parent's registration number or name
to get the scores.
OFA website:
http://www.offa.org/

CERF rates eyes. Labs are also prone to genetic eye problems that
irresponsible breeders will overlook (if they even bother to test) and breed
anyway. CERF is pass/fail if you see CERF60 that means the dog passed and
that certification occurred when the dog was 60 months (5 years) old.

The CERF website will let you look up whether a dog has been tested and when
the last test occurred but will not give you the results.
CERF website:
http://www.vet.purdue.edu/~yshen/cerf.html

Both these tests should be current (one or two years old at the most).
Breeders out to make a buck usually don't do these tests as they are
expensive, or only do them once at 2 years or so. So if you don't see OFA
and CERF all over the pedigree or if you do see ratings but they are all
old, chances are you are not dealing with a good breeder. Puppies from bad
breeders may very well develop expensive and painful hip and eye problems in
the future, so be careful when finding your pup.

A great website that will show you what else to look for on a pedigree:
http://members.tripod.com/~Marge_S_2/nonframes/readingapedigree6.htm

After all that rambling (sorry) check the AKC website, search under any or
all of the club types for an all breed/Labrador club in your area; they will
be able to recommend a good breeder. Also ask local vets, they may be
familiar with breeders in your area.

http://www.akc.org/index.cfm

 
 
 

I am looking at buying a 12 week old female lab need help

Post by Amy Dah » Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:04:50


Quote:

> The "parents" and "grandparents", at least, on both sides should have both
> OFA (hips and elbows) and CERF (eyes) ratings.
[snip]

> Both these tests should be current (one or two years old at the most).
> Breeders out to make a buck usually don't do these tests as they are
> expensive, or only do them once at 2 years or so. So if you don't see OFA
> and CERF all over the pedigree or if you do see ratings but they are all
> old, chances are you are not dealing with a good breeder. Puppies from bad
> breeders may very well develop expensive and painful hip and eye problems in
> the future, so be careful when finding your pup.

I would disagree with the need for such frequent testing.
On hips, authorities and kennel clubs around the world
disagree as to the minimum age at which a dog can be
certified "disease-free" but the OFA specifies the greatest
age (I'm pretty sure) of two years.  OFA guidelines are
based on veterinary orthopedists interpreting the latest
research and they say an evaluation at 24 months is good
enough.

Not only that, but it's now known that keeping track of
sibling hip status is more important than the precise rating
a dog gets--so too much focus on the individual dog's hips
may be misleading.

Regarding eyes, CERF certification is only current for one
year.  Realistically speaking, however, once a dog is well
past the age of onset for all of the known hereditary eye
problems covered by the CERF exam, there's no new information
to be gained by further testing.

The down side to all of this health testing is that it tends
to make people think that if their *** (breeders have ***es)
passes all of the tests, she is of breeding quality.  In fact
there are a lot of other aspects to the dog, in particular
temperament, intelligence, and trainability, as well as being
recognizable as a Lab, which are important to the owner.  Titles
such as FC, AFC, MH, CH, CDX, UD etc. imply that dogs in the
pedigree were owned by people who were involved in training and
showing or competing with their Labs and might be presumed to
be discriminating about some of the other aspects which make
a Lab a Lab.

To further complicate matters, some dogs who are certified for
hips and eyes are not shown as such on AKC paperwork!

Amy Dahl