>Date: 20 Jan 2005 15:35:54 -0800
>Subject: Re: New to this Group..Heaven Help me Now!
> >ALL OF WHOM PLACE LITTLE OR NO VALUE ON EACH OTHER'S SKILL
and *** dogs and LIE abHOWET it:
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and ***them on pronged spiked
pinch ***collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?
> > fur- they are DOGS.
LYING DOG ABUSERS HURT and ***.
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> very persistant.
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior -
Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE -
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!"
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:
"Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived."
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
> chew on just about anything. How do you train a
> young puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
> there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving
> the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is
> appropriate at this age.
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's
mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad
Dog" came before stronger punishement (the
kind discussed above).
My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to
stop a behavior.
"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.
then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when
he is appropriately behaving.
In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.
Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting
hot" or "your getting cold." If the delay between the
behavior and the consquence is too long then the
behavior will not appropriately change.
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
> off topic, but I would still like some input on
> biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old.
> The biggest problem I had with him is biting.
> This could have been when petting him, walking
> by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of
> playing or getting attention, but it can drive me
> To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting
if you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.
The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say
"no" whenever he bites.
All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.
Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.
If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.
> alone for a few min. When in there he barks
> and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
> After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does
> it when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.
You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.
Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.
Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the ***he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl says:
"To me, training a dog without using intimidation,
confrontation, or punishment is, indeed, everything. I
certainly reject "force" as Marilyn defines it. And "fear"
can be included under the category of intimidation.
Not a one of these is constructive in the training
of a dog; all are bad for the dog/handler relationship,
the dog's confidence, the dog's ultimate potential, etc.
But I do make use of tools and methods which I believe to
cause physical discomfort, including electric collars, pinch
collars, chain collars, switches, and the ear pinch.
I just don't equate the reaction with the tool/method--I look
at the dog to know its reaction. I think that is what some
people don't do: they are so full of surmises about what
causes what, that they never bother to regard the dog as
I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the
benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses
not to read the article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF
YOU DON'T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of
"twisting ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH
I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).
I would never advise anyone to slap a dog
(SHE'S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER,
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