Possessiveness - Won't Come - A FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method Student Writes:

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Possessiveness - Won't Come - A FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method Student Writes:

Post by Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat.. » Mon, 05 Jun 2006 04:18:28



 Possessiveness - Won't Come - A FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
Student Writes:

From: ""

Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:36 AM
Subject: Re WEDTM

HOWEDY,

Quote:
> Jerry
> A few more questions if you have time:

Sure, I'm always available.

Quote:
> Your use of sound is well worked out and works with most dogs.

Most? I've never seen one that won't respond.

Quote:
> HOWEever I have 2 who don't respond at all and wonder if
> you have any suggestions

It's probably some minor error you're making.

Quote:
> 1 A Golden Retriever *** pup, 5 months old.  Bright, and good natured
> apart from an extreme possessive streak ( the worst I have seen in 30
> years).

O.K., if he's possessive and aggressive to you, that's
because he's insecure with you.

Quote:
> Not otherwise aggressive or *** but strong willed -

We'll worry about that after we get everything else in
order, if there's still any need to.

Quote:
> could have been a good working dog if started off correctly
> in the right hands.

Never too late unless he's too old. I just double checked...
you say she's only 5 months? She's brand new, right
outta the box!!!

Quote:
> She takes anything lying around, specially socks.

Should be EZ to fix that. We'll use a couple things
you know he'll take, to use as training aids, but not
yet, when the time is right, after the basic conditioning
is installed.

Quote:
>  This pup either bites the person or swallows the article
> to prevent you getting it from her.

Right. That's because he doesn't trust you.

Quote:
> Now this behaviour is not uncommon in gundogs and I
> can usually teach them it is more rewarding to bring the
> article back to me and give it up.

Right. That's HOWE COME he won't give it up. I think
I see what's going wrong for you...

Quote:
> Unfortunately pup now often just swallows the article
> immediately even when no one is about -

Yeah, that's part of it... just like janet boss's dog Franklin.
That caused him abdominal surgery. I warned her about it
six months pryor to his near death experience.

Quote:
> so doesn't seem like attention seeking which is usual cause of this
> behaviour.

Right, but they're the same problem, just different clothes.

Quote:
> I have tried your method with sound, very carefully as per your
> instructions but this one is completely oblivious.

Same problem...

Quote:
> She is NOT deaf!

Right. All dog behavior problems are caused by mishandling.

Quote:
> but she doesn't worry at all about any noise or sound -

EXACTLY.

Quote:
> bomb proof.

That's cause you're using the sound as an aversive
or a repressive, to force control, I think. We don't
do that, on account of it DON'T WORK.

Quote:
> I have tried a negative association with the sound

Ooops! That's HOWE COME the rest of the technique
and everything else, has turned to shit.. NO NEGATIVE
INTERACTIONS WHATSOEVER. EVER.

Quote:
>  ( losing a desirable tid bit as per John Fishers dog
> disks if you know the theory)

I'm not an expert on Fisher, but as I understand it
he uses the discs as aversives. That's NOT AT ALL
the INTENT or EFFECT of my methods.

And the idea of TIDBITS or REWARDS in training is
LUDICROUS!!! That's relying on GREED to train
the dog to be GIVING and to be "SELFLESS..."

Think about it...

Quote:
> all to no avail.

That's HOWE COME I don't EVER use food bribes or
rewards or sounds as aversives. The objective is to
condition the technique, not force the dog. The intent
here is not even get the dog to think, because we're
conditioning a reflexive response.

THE DOG DON'T COUNT. Follow the TECHNIQUE, and
the dog will do exactly as the scientific technique DICTATES,
not HOWE the dog would LIKE to respond when YOU fail
to follow the conditioning techniques.

Quote:
> All I can try and do is to teach her it is better to bring the
> articles to the owner,

That's HOWE COME you can't extinguish the THOUGHT
of the behavior, you're not at all following the extinguishment
process as taught in your WEDTM manual!!! You're offering
replacements, and getting involved as an ENFORCER.

"Dead men don't speak. GET OUT!!!"

                The Sound Of One Hand Clapping

When Mamiya went to the priest for personal guidance, he was
asked to explain the sound of one hand clapping.  Mamiya
concentrated on what the sound might be.

"You are not working hard enough. You are too attached to food,
wealth, and to that sound. It would be better if you died. That
would solve the problem."

The next time Mamiya appeared before his teacher, he again was
asked what he had to show regarding the sound of one hand.

Mamiya immediately fell over as though dead.

"You are dead, all right, but how about that sound?"

Looking up, Mamiya replied: "I haven't solved that yet."

"Dead men don't speak, get out!," Shakumuni Buddha,
adapted with permission from His FREE copy of my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual. <TPW;~:}

=========================

Quote:
> but the swallowing habit is now ingrained.

Right. That's HOWE COME we don't do what Fisher
or ANYBODY other than Jerry does. Ain't it...

BWWHHWHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Quote:
> Any suggestions?

BWWHWHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! Yeah.

Read study and FOLLOW THE TECHNIQUE in your
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual, and
don't believe NOBODY who tells you other than HOWE
I teach it... no matter HOWE pupular they are amongst
the experts.

We have far higher standards than the rest. Dog's are
far more sensitive and intelligent than trainers give them
credit. That's HOWE COME the "rewards" and other
malarkey trainers use, FAILS them.

Quote:
> 2 Anatolian Shepherd *** 1 year old.

Another BABY!!!

Quote:
> Very sweet natured but strong willed

"Strong willed" tells me you're having confrontations...

Quote:
> (they had to be for their original work).

To my method, a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog.

Quote:
> I have used your FPL exercise with some success but big
> problem is chasing hares

PROBLEM??? That's not a problem, that's a training
opportunity. Work the come command every time you
find a bunny... But be sure to reinstall the TECHNIQUES
puperly first, so they'll WORK when we set up the distractions.

Quote:
> (these dogs often had to catch their own food).

Me too!

Quote:
> She will not respond at all to use of sound when
> trying to install a consistent recall.

Doesn't matter. We'll condition the response little by
little in just a few repetitions, just like sharpening a knife.

Quote:
> She just ignores the can completely -

Irrelevant. We're looking to CONDITION the response,
not FORCE or INTIMIDATE the dog to do "it."
Although, it MAY be an ADVANTAGE, cause she's not
thinking of the sound as an AVERSIVE. We never want
to try to FORCE the issues, cause then the dog will do
the things like POSSESSION AGGRESSION, or NOT COME,
etc...

Quote:
> it just doesn't seem to register.

That's O.K. Study the techniques and follow them EXACTLY.
If there a vet or trainer who disagrees, tell them to call me.

Quote:
> So I am using a single, quick jerk on a long trailing cord to
> interrupt her inattention

WELL,THERE YA GO! That's the PROBLEM.

Quote:
> in the same way you use the can

NO. The can is NOT to be used as an aversive. The dog's
RESPONSE is IRRELEVANT. WE FOLLOW the TECHNIQUE,
and the DOG FOLLOWS US.

It's a Catch 22 situation. You can't get 100% total NON FORCE
control, using ANY force, aversion, intimidation, or DEVIANCE
from the SCIENTIFIC TECHNIQUE.

Quote:
> Any other ideas?

Yeah. Everything in the method is PRECISE. There's NO
room for variation.  Everything the dog does is predictable
if we follow the technique.

I can correct every handling error a human can make, if
you follow the method as best you can, and tell me what
your dog is doing, I'll tell you what the error is, and we'll
fix it in moments...

The dogs will work as they're conditioned if we follow the
conditioning techniques EXACTLY.

That's the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

Everything's got to be presented in exactly the same timing
tone and tempo and the praise must INSTANTLY follow the
sound REGARDLESS of the dog's response. The sequence
of events must never be broken, from day in to day out, the
technique always follows the LAST instance it was used,
even after weeks of last needing to rely on it.

Quote:
> Kind Regards

That was EZ, huh? Here's what to do. STOP using the
line as a training aid. Use it ONLY to restrain the dog
from escape till he's trained.

BITE your tongue every time you THINK of sayin 'NO!'

Slap your wrist if you EVER think of THROWING the can
or discs AT the dog out of fear or frustration or to force
an interruption, as that may cause an AVERSION and
AVERSION causes ADVERSION, and there goes the
whole damned shootin match!!!

Soon as you think of taking a step towards your dog to
force control, TURN AND RUN THE OTHER WAY while
PRAISING. Might not work for the dog, but we'll break
YOUR habit of trying to FORCE CONTROL!!!

Follow the techniques EXACTLY. Make sure you understand
the default techniques. That's explained pretty thoroughly
in part 2 of the manual, I think.

RELY ON PRAISE IN ADVANCE AND CONDITION THE
TECHNIQUES, don't force them.

Once you get the basics installed puperly, then we'll work
on the distractions and possession issues, IF they're still
operant. They probably will NOT be sticking around after
we get the basic conditioning to PRAISE installed.

Let me know if this fixes things up. We can figure out
other ways to present the sound cues to get them
installed if you're still having difficulty in a day or two.

Don't overlook the Hot & Cold Exercise....

Thank you. This post may be helpful for some other
folks struggling to get it all together. I'll edit your names
and repost it to the dog groups, maybe someone else
will benefit from it.

Stay in touch till we get all the bugs ironed out. It won't
take much, but I fear you've still got some old habits to
break. Once you get through that, a whole new world
will open up for you.

Yours, Jerry.