Help with Maggie and Lisa attacking a deer

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Help with Maggie and Lisa attacking a deer

Post by The Puppy Wizar » Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:45:17



HOWEDY MBeale3426,


Quote:
> I have two two year old cross bred ***es (they are sisters)

Perhaps it'd make things EZ for us if you'd direct your
question to WON EXXXPERT whom you respect and
believe?

OtherWIZE, noWON would be able to read all the
answers you're abHOWET to get on accHOWENT
of there AIN'T NO SOLUTION for trainin a dog like
you got. And you got TWO of 'em.

It's kinda an individual problem and we need MOORE INFORMATION to
answer your multi faceted question.

It could be WON of your dogs was trying to invite
the deer HOWET with them for coffee at Sarbucks
and maybe the other got jealHOWES?

What was the weather like and what time of day
was it when the incident occured? Could it be the
dogs awoke in a bad mood that day?

Or perhaps WON dog didn't have enough money to
offer to treat them all and started a fight as a subterfuge
for being financially EMBARRASSED?

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes:

Quote:
> "Yes, any kind of dog running deer presents a
> threat and the law is not limited to Vermont. And,
> yes, I agree with that law. Even more so when the
> prey is free-range cattle. In CA. it isn't just a LEO
> who can shoot a chasing dog."

> Lynn K.
> > Electric collars are especially useful for
> > dogs who find potentially dangerous things
> > highly reinforcing.

Like kelly aka culprit aka metta's dogs
***IN HER DEAD KAT.

Quote:
> > Let's say you want to take your dog for a walk,
> > and it decides to take off full bore after deer.

Then the dog AIN'T TRAINED.

Quote:
> > Nothing you can say or do at that moment
> > trumps the hard-wired instinct to chase deer.

Not if the dog AIN'T TRAINED.

These mental cases will make any lame
EXXXCUSE to HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs.

Quote:
> > And not only is chasing deer illegal in most places,

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and lying frosty
dahl like to shoot dogs for chasin deer.

Quote:
> >  it could also get the dog killed (if he crossed
>> a road) or lost.

Or if his shock collar set IT on fire.

Quote:
> > So for dogs who find such behavior more
> >  valuable than any treat or praise you can
> > offer to come back,

Well, no WONder HOWE COME she
can't train her dog. Offering bribes and
rewards does not work.

Quote:
> > an electric collar reaches out to tap them
> > on the shoulder and interrupt that overwhelming
> > prey drive. It says, "hey, I'm back
> > here, I'm calling you, you need to listen."

That's a load of crap.

Quote:
> I suppose so,

Well then you better post your mental
health case history if you're gonna believe
that malarkey. Training dogs is EZ if you
know HOWE. We don't blame the breed
or "hard wiring" or whatever other EXXXCUSE
these incompetent dog abusing mental cases
try to use to justify hurtin and ***in dogs.

Quote:
> that hunting instinct must be very strong in most dogs,

A dog is a dog.

Quote:
> some particularly, so they won't hang around -
> perhaps they expect you to join in!

Yeah. But HOWER dog lovers prefer to HURT
and INTIMDATE their dogs.

Quote:
> I'd probably locate walks away from deer though!

You afraid of deer?

Quote:
> looking at some dogs though, they can
>  resist that hunt so it must be possible.

Yeah. A dog is a dog. Breakin a dog
of chasin deer ain't no different than
breaking a dog of chasing lights / shadows /
fly snapping - or any other OCD behavior.

Just takes a couple minutes if you know HOWE.

"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."

"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

"If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk
With You And You Will Know Each Other. If
You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not Know
Them, And What You Do Not Know You Will Fear.

What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George,
adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual.

Thinking About Using Shock Collars?

Subject: Thinking About Using Shock
Collars In The House? Read This.
Date: 2001-06-20 23:22:19 PST

So, you're looking for ways to keep your dog out
of certain rooms in the house, and you're toying
with the idea of using those "humane" shock
collars eh?

Some people swear by them, but a few words of warning ...

When our 1yr old dog kept romping on the living room furniture
(brand new) and wouldn't stay out of that 1 room, I decided to
try those "humane" shock collars that some stores/folks swear
by. She's got the full run of the house, but this 1 room was
off limits.

The wife and I go out frequently, and after about 1week of
"regular" use, we started noticing some really odd behavior
from our baby. When we'd come home after being gone for an
hour, the dog was usually cowering upstairs, shaking like
crazy and scared out of her wits.  In fairly short order we
realized the cause of her sheer terror - it was the damn
collar!

Most of my friends think I'm totally crazy for doing this -
and all the relatives got a real good laugh out of it - but
after seeing how terrified she was I decided to do what most
folks wouldn't ....

I wanted to see exactly what this "light" shock was all about,
so you guessed it ... I took it off the dog and I put it on my
own neck. With collar in place I then marched right on in to
the heart of the living room to see what the score was. The
way I looked at it, if I'm going to be shocking the dog, it's
only fair to know exactly what I'm doing to her.

Well folks, let me tell you this ... it's anything but humane,
and a light shock ... NOT. Not only was it INCREDIBLY
unnerving, but as I was making a mad dash to get out of the
room, the shock worked it's way through other muscles in my
upper back and I actually dropped to the floor.  I'm 6'2,
athletic, 195lbs, ex rugby player and soccer player. I can
take pain and discomfort quit well, but this ... this really,
really sucked.

But wait, it gets worse.

At this point I decided that there was no way in hell that dog
would ever wear that collar again (nor would I for that matter
<G>). I took it off and as I was walking around the house with
it, guess what happened next ... the damn thing started
beeping!  Although the system was setup "perfectly" and the
radius of the radio single didn't extend too far from the
unit, the single was being carried through certain structures
in the house and was being "picked up" in small areas.  In one
room at the opposite end of the house there was an area about
1x2 feet where the signal was being received. So not only was
the dog learning about the *** shock and becoming very
frightened of that one room, but she was also loosing her mind
getting shocked at random areas elsewhere in the house.

And if you think testing the shock on your hand to see what it
feels like is a fair trial, trust me, it ain't the same as
getting tagged on your neck where you can't yank it away.

If you're still dead set on trying these things and you really
don't mind hurting your dog and scaring the poor thing half to
death, do what's only fair .... attach it to your own neck and
give it a whirl. You might be surprised at just how fast you
change your mind.

Doug.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Help with Maggie and Lisa attacking a deer

Post by The Puppy Wizar » Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:41:13


BWEEEEEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAJJAJAAA!!!

YOU GOT THE SAME SAME PROBLEM.


Quote:


> >Do I own what could be described as dangerous dogs?
> >If so what can be done or is it too late now?
> >Were they just being dogs?
> >Did they sense that there was something wrong with the deer?

> What you described is pretty normal behavior for some dogs.
> I doubt very much that they perceived anything wrong with
> the deer (other than it was alive and uneaten).  The problem
> you face is that they've learned that attacking deer is fun
> and rewarding.  I'd spend some serious time drilling recalls
> and make sure that they get a HUGE reward when they come
> back to you, but frankly I've got extremely predatory dogs,
> myself, and they stay on-lead when we're outside the fence.
> --
>      Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -


Quote:

>       Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based

community
 
 
 

Help with Maggie and Lisa attacking a deer

Post by The Puppy Wizar » Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:28:11


HOWEDY diannes,


Quote:

> > No, but depending on where you live it may
> > be illegal to allow your dogs to chase deer

The OP ain't allHOWEIN the dogs to do that.
THAT'S HOWE COME he's askin you lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases
who got the same problem and can't train
their own dogs, for heelp.

Quote:
>  (by "allow" they mean no matter how your dog
> escapes you, you "let" it) and it may be legal for
> others to shoot your dog.

Well then, the OBJECTIVE would be to
break the dog of attackin innocent critters
rather than try to AVOID the dog ESCAPIN
on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE
to perimeter train IT.

Quote:
> Yep. Even if the deer escapes, it may die
> later from shock and exhaustion.

leah seemed to think it was FUNNY that
the STUPID DEER hurt hisself.

Quote:
> Chasing deer is normal dog behavior but in this
> day & age it's a BIG no-no.

You mean on accHOWENT of the law protects
deer from being ***ed off season by means
other than bow rifle or shotgun.

The idea never crossed your mind that the deer's
mommy might not be FAWNED of the idea of your
dogs mutilating her babys.

Quote:
> >> If so what can be done or is it too late now?

Any dog can be trained if you know HOWE.

Quote:
> > As Melinda said--proof your recalls.

That ain't gonna train the dog not to attack
deer and you know it. What's gonna prevent
the dogs from ESCAPING and attacking deer?

Quote:
> Or keep them on leash.

On accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE
to train them not to attack innocent critters.

Quote:
> > Probably not, besides that it was a pretty dumb deer

That so?

Quote:
> I do disagree with the "dumb deer" assessment.

IMAGINE?

Quote:
>  I know that the deer in my neighborhood are quite tame.
> There's a regular deer path through my yard that passes
> not ten feet from where I sit now. The does and fawns
> tend to stick together, but the bucks often come through
> by themselves.

> And all the deer are quite tolerant of my dog Patience.

They IGNORE her.

Quote:
> But she's a fairly special case -

INDEEDY. She's owned trained and handled
by a fairly SPECIAL case.

Quote:
>  she's a highly trained

Oh, INDEEDY!

Quote:
> and experienced herding dog

Yeah. Unless she ESCAPES and then you
can't call her back.

Quote:
> who knows quite well that she's not
> to go after any hoofed things unless
> she's instructed to do

RIGHT. But that won't mean a thing as soon
as she's HOWET REACH of you.

Quote:
> so.

So you can't HURT her. Then she'll do any thing she wants.

Quote:
> It did take a couple of years of regular training in the
> presence of livestock before she became this trustworthy.

BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Yeah. LUCKY thing the dog wasn't aggressive
to small children like tara o. aka tee's DEAD
DOG Summer.

Quote:
> Even so, I would NOT trust her alone with the deer;

Despite that "It did take a couple of years of regular
training in the presence of livestock before she became
this trustworthy."

"Even so, I would NOT trust her alone with the deer;"

"she's a fairly special case - she's a highly trained"

"I would NOT trust her alone with the deer"

"she's a fairly special case - she's a highly trained"

"and experienced herding dog"

"she's a fairly special case - she's a highly trained"

"I would NOT trust her alone with the deer"

Despite that "It did take a couple of years of regular
training in the presence of livestock before she became
this trustworthy."

Quote:
>  I'm always close by.

Despite that "It did take a couple of years of regular
training in the presence of livestock before she became
this trustworthy."

"she's a fairly special case - she's a highly trained
and experienced herding dog she's a fairly special
case - she's a highly trained"

"I would NOT trust her alone with the deer"

Despite that "It did take a couple of years of regular
training in the presence of livestock before she became
this trustworthy."

Quote:
>Yet since these deer have spent a lot of
> time around a non-threatening dog

Despite that "It did take a couple of years of regular
training in the presence of livestock before she became
this trustworthy."

HOWE many MOORE years do you think it'll
take you to train your own dog to be safe with
herd animals when you AIN'T standin right there
ready to HURT and INTIMIDATE them someMOORE,
diannes?

Quote:
>  I would expect that they have lost some of their
> innate fear of canines.

Despite that "It did take a couple of years of regular
training in the presence of livestock before she became
this trustworthy."

"she's a fairly special case - she's a highly trained
and experienced herding dog she's a fairly special
case - she's a highly trained"

"I would NOT trust her alone with the deer"

Quote:
>  That's not dumb;

That so? You're right. That's SHEER IDIOCY.

Quote:
> it's simple classical conditioning.

It's a LIE, diannes. Your dog is no MOORE a
SHEEP HERDER than The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's dogs.

Quote:
> As another poster (Leah?)

leah's RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT
RECENTLY ***ED a little innocent
DEAD DOG in the park and her other student's
dogs ***ED her pet bunny and leah
thought it was FUNNY and blamed the lady's
HYSTERIA on the FULL MOON.

REMEMBER?

Quote:
> already pointed out,

leah BLAMED her abused Rottie's PRAY DRIVE
for SUDDENLY KICKING IN and causin IT to
*** that innocent little DEAD DOG like
HOWE her other student's dogs ***ED
her HOWEsbunny.

REMEMBER?

Quote:
> since the OP's dogs have now gotten away with
> chasing deer it's much more likely to occur again -

Any behavior that's PREDICTABLE REPEATABLE
or CONSISTENT is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY
INSTANTLY. So THAT is an ADVANTAGE if you're
gonna TRAIN the dog in LESS THAN TWO YEARS
to MAYBY NOT ATTACK a HERD CRITTER unless
you TELL IT NOT TO.

Quote:
>  a highly rewarding behavior is very often
> repeated even if negative consequences
> are added later.

That so? Is THAT HOWE COME you can't
train your own dog to not attack herd critters?

Quote:
> Also, pack behaviors arise when more than one dog is present;

That'll make TRAINING the dogs THAT MUCH EZier!
That's kinda like HOWE Lee Charles Kelley was tryin
to tell you, but you couldn't understand or believe him
and called him a LIAR.

REMEMBER?

Perhaps you shoulda asked him HOWE you could
TRAIN your: "she's a fairly special case - she's a
highly trained and experienced herding dog - she's
highly trained"

"I would NOT trust her alone with the deer"

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

THAT'S what we call FAILURE, in the dog behavior business.

Quote:
> I'm sure that the fact that there were two dogs
> involved contributed to this incident.

That so? Can you think of any other EXXXCUSES to blame?

Quote:
> Because of that, I liked the suggestion of keeping
> one dog on leash - the other is far less likely to break
> away and go have fun on her own.

Would you BET YOUR LIFE on that?

Quote:
> I'd still do a lot of proofing on recalls before
> letting even one of them off-lead,

That so? You think tellin the dog to COME will
teach IT not to ATTACK INNOCENT CRITTERS
when you ain't standin right there threatening to
HURT and INTIMIDATE your dog? THAT'S HOWE
COME your dog is a SPECIAL CASE:

"she's a fairly special case - she's a highly trained
and experienced herding dog - she's a highly trained"

"I would NOT trust her alone with the deer"

BWEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

Quote:
> and also use verbal commands to keep
> the loose dog close -

Yeah. That's what your shock collar is for.

Quote:
> the closer a dog is to you than to
> the deer, the more likely it is that
> her attraction to you will overcome
> the lure of the deer.

On accHOWENT of the dog will FEAR you
reachin HOWET and HURTIN IT someMOORE.

Quote:
> Good luck,

Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK; "luck is for SUCKERS,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

Quote:
> Dianne


Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14



Quote:
>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>***has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt


          > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

          > > When you compare using sound and
          > > praise to solve a problem with using
          > > shock collars,***, and punishment
          > > how can you criticize the use of sound?

          > There's nothing more to be said, then.
          > You've made up your mind.

          > But you've impressed me by mentioning
          > that you're a professor with 30 years of
          > experience.

          > So, can you cite some examples of
          > people recommending "shock collars,
          >***, and punishment"?
          > --
          > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

  lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
  For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
  pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to it.
  When he barks, use the line for a correction.

 - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

  Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

Quote:
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting,

...

read more »

 
 
 

Help with Maggie and Lisa attacking a deer

Post by The Puppy Wizar » Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:31:13


BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

YOUR DOG GOT THE SAME PROBLEM!!!

You're a MENTAL CASE.


Quote:


>  However the other
> > day they saw a lone deer (this is unusual I have only seen
them previously
> in
> > small herds) and they gave chase

> I don't know where you are but odds are extremely good that the
deer in your
> area are in the rut.  If so, the scent is stronger than usual.
DH had a
> beagle (30!) years ago who they finally broke of running deer
EXCEPT during
> the breeding season.  Then he just could not pass up a buck in
the rut.
> They just smelled too good.

> And it's possible that if it were a doe that your dogs chased
and cornered
> (which I'm guessing since you didn't mention antlers) that she
was separated
> from her usual group because she's in heat.  And if she had just
been
> recently bred - or even recently chased by a buck whether or not
he was
> successful at breeding her - she was tired and somewhat
disoriented.  Maybe
> in an unfamiliar area.

> But as everyone else has said, the answer is to keep them on
leash anytime
> they may run into deer.  You might even have some success -
after a period
> of retraining - keeping just one on a leash while the other is
freer.
> Having had such success with their first deer attack - which was
probably
> pretty exciting for you also - they are going to be eager to
repeat it.

> No, it doesn't mean that you have dangerous dogs - except to
deer.  Sounds
> like they had a lot of fun being dogs.  But as you know, it's
just not
> acceptable behavior for them to repeat.  So they may have lost
their
> off-leash privileges.  You could get long leads for them - not
as much fun
> for the dogs and trickier for you but it reinforces control.
And I know
> some people (Sionnach?) who have used electronic collars to
train a recall
> in spite of temptations.

> ~~Judy