Moon's Graden

by **Kyle Cassi** » Tue, 10 Dec 1996 04:00:00

recently my neighbor, cynthia, asked if i would accompany her and her
boston terrier to the vet. the dog was in terrible pain from what she
thought might be a broken leg or pelvis (perhaps from falling down a
flight of stairs). she is new in the city and so had never been to a vet
here before. we found one in the yellow pages and took the dog.

the doctor examined the dog, and said that he wanted to take x-rays
(makes sense to me). and that the dog would have to be knocked out (also
makes sense to me.) the vet stated that there are 2 injections given to
knock the dog out, one subcutanious, to make him groggy, and the other
intravenious, about 10 minutes later to "do the deed". so while cynthia
held the dog, the doctor gave him the first shot. then he said "okay,
leave the dog here and come back at 4:00 and we'll talk about the
x-rays." cynthea said that she wanted to be there when he gave the dog
the second shot (also makes sense to me), but the doctor said "no, don't
worry about it, i can take care of it. come back at 4." cynthea said that
she was certian that he was capable of giving the dog the shot, but she
didn't want the dog to think that she'd abandoned it in a strange place.
she just wanted to be there when he went to sleep. then the vet started
acting, i thought, pretty weird. he exclaimed vociferously that she had
"made an agreement" to come back at four and that she couldn't be in the
room when he gave the dog the shot, because if she was there, the dog
would get upset. which i thought pretty odd, since she'd been there when
he gave the dog the first shot and it hadn't flinched. she said that she
wasn't going to leave the dog until it was asleep because he was confused
enoough and in pain and she didn't want him to think he'd been "left"
anywhere. which made sense to me. then the vet started acting like she
wasn't in the room, talking to other people and completely ignoring her.
after about 15 minutes of bickering back and forth between them he
finally said "fine, you come in," they went in a room, he gave the dog
the shot, it went to sleep, and we left. i thought the whole thing was
really, really odd. if he had offered a reason, any reason that sounded
1/2 way believeable, i would have said "why don't you just leave the dog
with him, he knows what he's doing" but his clandestine attitude made me
think "what's he plannning on doing? putting the dog out with a broom
handle or something?"

does this seem strange to anyone else? has anyone else had a similar
ocurrance?

thanks,

kc

--
this is my sig

by **mckens** » Tue, 10 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> 1/2 way believeable, i would have said "why don't you just leave the dog
> with him, he knows what he's doing" but his clandestine attitude made me
> think "what's he plannning on doing? putting the dog out with a broom
> handle or something?"

> does this seem strange to anyone else? has anyone else had a similar
> ocurrance?

> thanks,
> kc
> --
> this is my sig

yes that sounds rather odd to me. I would suggest finding a more
compassionate vet (go on people's recommendations) for future
happenings. Find someone willing to explain things rationally.
Think 'if this was a human doctor would i trust my child to him?'.
Granted, the vet may have had a reason for wanting you to come back
later but he should have been willing to reasonably explain himself.
Also most vets I've worked with/ been to that had let a person in for a
primary shot would have let the person been around for a second
injection, provided the person was calm and not making a pest of
themselves.
Who does the dog's routine exam/shots?
Mckensy

by **C.S. Jenki** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>recently my neighbor, cynthia, asked if i would accompany her and her
>boston terrier to the vet. the dog was in terrible pain from what she
>thought might be a broken leg or pelvis (perhaps from falling down a
>flight of stairs). she is new in the city and so had never been to a vet
>here before. we found one in the yellow pages and took the dog.

>the doctor examined the dog, and said that he wanted to take x-rays
>(makes sense to me). and that the dog would have to be knocked out (also
>makes sense to me.) the vet stated that there are 2 injections given to
>knock the dog out, one subcutanious, to make him groggy, and the other
>intravenious, about 10 minutes later to "do the deed". so while cynthia
>held the dog, the doctor gave him the first shot. then he said "okay,
>leave the dog here and come back at 4:00 and we'll talk about the
>x-rays." cynthea said that she wanted to be there when he gave the dog
>the second shot (also makes sense to me), but the doctor said "no, don't
>worry about it, i can take care of it. come back at 4." cynthea said that
>she was certian that he was capable of giving the dog the shot, but she
>didn't want the dog to think that she'd abandoned it in a strange place.
>she just wanted to be there when he went to sleep. then the vet started
>acting, i thought, pretty weird. he exclaimed vociferously that she had
>"made an agreement" to come back at four and that she couldn't be in the
>room when he gave the dog the shot, because if she was there, the dog
>would get upset. which i thought pretty odd, since she'd been there when
>he gave the dog the first shot and it hadn't flinched. she said that she
>wasn't going to leave the dog until it was asleep because he was confused
>enoough and in pain and she didn't want him to think he'd been "left"
>anywhere. which made sense to me. then the vet started acting like she
>wasn't in the room, talking to other people and completely ignoring her.
>after about 15 minutes of bickering back and forth between them he
>finally said "fine, you come in," they went in a room, he gave the dog
>the shot, it went to sleep, and we left. i thought the whole thing was
>really, really odd. if he had offered a reason, any reason that sounded
>1/2 way believeable, i would have said "why don't you just leave the dog
>with him, he knows what he's doing" but his clandestine attitude made me
>think "what's he plannning on doing? putting the dog out with a broom
>handle or something?"

>does this seem strange to anyone else? has anyone else had a similar
>ocurrance?

>thanks,

>kc

>--
>this is my sig

KC,
When I worked for a vet a few years ago and he got behind in the days
schedule he would try to hurry along by allowing we techs to do some
of the less diagnostic work. Numerous times I was asked to take a
dog/cat from an exam room to a treatment room and start an I.V. or
give an injection. It's widely practiced and perfectly legal. The
vet even joked that when he was rushed he found it difficult to "find
a vein" for I.V. injections and I could probably handle it quicker in
the back.
Maybe your vet felt rushed due to over-booking his schedule and was
afraid of fumbling with the I.V. injection, spilling ***, and
looking, well, incompetent. He might have been too embarrassed to
come out and say it. Some people deal with embarrassment with anger
or rude behavior. I think your friend was right to stick to her guns
tho. No doubt her dog could pick up on her tension and would have
been twice as frightened if she had left. Maybe forcing the vets hand
will put him into a position to deal with his over-booking, his I.V.
technique, his embarrassment, his bed side manner, or all of the
above.
Then again maybe he's just a jerk.
CS Jenkins

by **Let me see now.** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>>recently my neighbor, cynthia, asked if i would accompany her and her
>>boston terrier to the vet. the dog was in terrible pain from what she
>>thought might be a broken leg or pelvis (perhaps from falling down a
>>flight of stairs). she is new in the city and so had never been to a vet
>>here before. we found one in the yellow pages and took the dog.

>>the doctor examined the dog, and said that he wanted to take x-rays
>>(makes sense to me). and that the dog would have to be knocked out (also
>>makes sense to me.) the vet stated that there are 2 injections given to
>>knock the dog out, one subcutanious, to make him groggy, and the other
>>intravenious, about 10 minutes later to "do the deed". so while cynthia
>>held the dog, the doctor gave him the first shot. then he said "okay,
>>leave the dog here and come back at 4:00 and we'll talk about the
>>x-rays." cynthea said that she wanted to be there when he gave the dog
>>the second shot (also makes sense to me), but the doctor said "no, don't
>>worry about it, i can take care of it. come back at 4." cynthea said that
>>she was certian that he was capable of giving the dog the shot, but she
>>didn't want the dog to think that she'd abandoned it in a strange place.
>>she just wanted to be there when he went to sleep. then the vet started
>>acting, i thought, pretty weird. he exclaimed vociferously that she had
>>"made an agreement" to come back at four and that she couldn't be in the
>>room when he gave the dog the shot, because if she was there, the dog
>>would get upset. which i thought pretty odd, since she'd been there when
>>he gave the dog the first shot and it hadn't flinched. she said that she
>>wasn't going to leave the dog until it was asleep because he was confused
>>enoough and in pain and she didn't want him to think he'd been "left"
>>anywhere. which made sense to me. then the vet started acting like she
>>wasn't in the room, talking to other people and completely ignoring her.
>>after about 15 minutes of bickering back and forth between them he
>>finally said "fine, you come in," they went in a room, he gave the dog
>>the shot, it went to sleep, and we left. i thought the whole thing was
>>really, really odd. if he had offered a reason, any reason that sounded
>>1/2 way believeable, i would have said "why don't you just leave the dog
>>with him, he knows what he's doing" but his clandestine attitude made me
>>think "what's he plannning on doing? putting the dog out with a broom
>>handle or something?"

>>does this seem strange to anyone else? has anyone else had a similar
>>ocurrance?

The way the vet handled the whole situation sounds very odd, but I
work for a vet and to be honest most animals do behave better without
the owner around.
If an animal comes in seriously injured (ie: not booked in for routine
surgery) then of course, where I work anyway, the vet sees them
straight away and usually gives them a pain killer straight away with
the owner present, the vet then examines the animal and talks to the
owner about options etc.
The vet may have been worried about how the owner would react to her
pet being anaesthetised. Firstly this is not done in an exam room but
in a surgery fully equipped with anaesthetic machines and the pet is
intubated again not a thing an owner likes to watch and this must be
done straight away after the initial IV anaesthetic.

Again I think by your description the vet handled it very badly but I
do think he was wise to advise the owner not being present for the
anaesthetic.
Kim

by **Jeff Coo** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> >>she just wanted to be there when he went to sleep. then the vet started
> >>acting, i thought, pretty weird. he exclaimed vociferously that she had
> >>"made an agreement" to come back at four and that she couldn't be in the
> >>room when he gave the dog the shot, because if she was there, the dog
> Again I think by your description the vet handled it very badly but I
> do think he was wise to advise the owner not being present for the
> anaesthetic.

I'm afraid I have to take a different view, considering that the vet's
insistence bordered on hostility:
What a convenient way to sell lab animals.

--

Jeff Cook

Washington, DC area

by **kreid..** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>The vet may have been worried about how the owner would react to
>her pet being anaesthetised. Firstly this is not done in an exam
>room but in a surgery fully equipped with anaesthetic machines and
>the pet is intubated again not a thing an owner likes to watch and
>this must be done straight away after the initial IV anaesthetic.
>Again I think by your description the vet handled it very badly but
>I do think he was wise to advise the owner not being present for the
>anaesthetic.
>Kim

Kim,
I think this needs to be looked at case by case. My one vet
invited me in for my dog's neutering. I helped with the anesthesia,
and started the fluid infusion in the recovery area. Now, granted,
I'm a bit odd, in that I have watched with great interest while
minor surgery has been performed on me, but an interest in the
proceedings is certainly not limited to members of the medical
profession. I would have loved to have watched while my carpal
tunnel job was done, as they say hand surgery is a bit complex.
The surgeon was not amenable; oh, well.
I have been present on several occasions while a dog of mine
came out of the anesthesia, and I think you're missing an important
point. The dog comes awake in the presence of the person in whom
they place the most trust, and I suspect that this can also
strengthen the bond between the two.
Tomorrow morning Lugh goes in to get his teeth done. This vet
also is one who cuts the "owner" (hate that term!) out of the
picture. A bit arbitrary, IMO.
Bob K
Net-Tamer V 1.07 - Registered

by **Let me see now.** » Fri, 13 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Kim,
> I think this needs to be looked at case by case. My one vet
> invited me in for my dog's neutering. I helped with the anesthesia,
> and started the fluid infusion in the recovery area. Now, granted,
> I'm a bit odd, in that I have watched with great interest while
> minor surgery has been performed on me, but an interest in the
> proceedings is certainly not limited to members of the medical
> profession. I would have loved to have watched while my carpal
> tunnel job was done, as they say hand surgery is a bit complex.
> The surgeon was not amenable; oh, well.

I guess your right every case is different and you sound quite fine to
watch your pets surgical procedure, however most people I feel and I
guess its just my opinion wouldnt cope well watching their own pet
have surgery/anaesthetic etc. There is also the problem that if god
forbid there was an anaesthetic emergency I really dont think an owner
could cope with the stress I know ide be a wreck if it was my dog and
there where anaesthetic problems.
I do agree however that it would be wonderful if owners could be
present at their pets recovery from surgery as they wake up.
Unfortunatly where I work anyway the amount of things needing to be
done really doesnt make it possible for this to happen eg. lots of
surgeries and we cant really give owners exact time of surgery
therefore a wake up time etc.

We do however let owners visit their pets in hospital(unless
specifically needed to be quiet eg heartworm treatment) and I know not
all hospitals alow this which I think is just horrible.

By the way I dont know but are peoples relatives etc allowed to be
present during human surgery? If not maybe its for the same reasons.
I think I am a very good vet nurse and handle emergencies very well,
but I still have trouble helping to anaesthetise my dog or assist in
surgery because I am so concerned about something going wrong which it
very very rarely does in all patients that I cant be an asset to the
procedure which is what I think the vets are worried about with having
owners present, they might feel more worried about the owner being
there kind of like public speaking and doing a speech to yourself
quite a big difference in performance ( if you hate public speaking
that is :) Just my opinion of course :)
Kim

by **kreid..** » Sat, 14 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>I guess your right every case is different and you sound quite fine
>to watch your pets surgical procedure, however most people I feel
>and I guess its just my opinion wouldnt cope well watching their
>own pet have surgery/anaesthetic etc. There is also the problem
>that if god forbid there was an anaesthetic emergency I really dont
>think an owner could cope with the stress I know ide be a wreck if
>it was my dog and there where anaesthetic problems.

Yeah, you're right there. Most everyone would have a problem
then.

>I do agree however that it would be wonderful if owners could be
>present at their pets recovery from surgery as they wake up.
>Unfortunatly where I work anyway the amount of things needing to be
>done really doesnt make it possible for this to happen eg. lots of
>surgeries and we cant really give owners exact time of surgery
>therefore a wake up time etc.

Well, when I have to have something done on a dog that requires
anesthesia, I clear the day of everything else.

>We do however let owners visit their pets in hospital(unless
>specifically needed to be quiet eg heartworm treatment) and I know
>not all hospitals alow this which I think is just horrible.
>By the way I dont know but are peoples relatives etc allowed to be
>present during human surgery? If not maybe its for the same
>reasons.

Sounds reasonable to me. I know that I worry more about my dogs
than I do about myself. I'm kind of a wimp that way.

I think I am a very good vet nurse and handle emergencies
>very well, but I still have trouble helping to anaesthetise my dog
>or assist in surgery because I am so concerned about something
>going wrong which it very very rarely does in all patients that I
>cant be an asset to the procedure which is what I think the vets
>are worried about with having owners present, they might feel more
>worried about the owner being there kind of like public speaking
>and doing a speech to yourself quite a big difference in
>performance ( if you hate public speaking that is :) Just my
>opinion of course :) Kim

I handle emergencies fairly well, actually. I self-destruct later.
(g) I can see the vets' point: I work alone, and I much prefer it
that way. When things DO go to Hell, I want nothing in my way to a
solution. I can be nice as can be when things are going smoothly,
and rough and rude when there's no time for any foolishness. Some
people see this as a character flaw in me, but then they lack my
skill at focussing, which is what often gets you through the tight
ones. Obviously, if I were a vet, I'd do it just the way they do it
at your place. But I'm not a vet, so I wanna be with my dogs! Two
different viewpoints, equally valid . . .
Bob K
Net-Tamer V 1.07 - Registered

by **Let me see now.** » Sun, 15 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> >We do however let owners visit their pets in hospital(unless
> >specifically needed to be quiet eg heartworm treatment) and I know
> >not all hospitals alow this which I think is just horrible.
> >By the way I dont know but are peoples relatives etc allowed to be
> >present during human surgery? If not maybe its for the same
> >reasons.
> Sounds reasonable to me. I know that I worry more about my dogs
> than I do about myself. I'm kind of a wimp that way.

hehehe well I must be a wimp to because my dog is my baby as are my
ferrets :). I think this is good in my job because I can really
realte to people like you who come in and are really worried about
their pets(ie to me and you family members). I do everything I can
to reassure them even ring them once their pet is awake to let them
know everything is ok :) ans sit with their animals while they wake up
cause Im better then noone I think.

Quote:

> at your place. But I'm not a vet, so I wanna be with my dogs! Two
> different viewpoints, equally valid . . .
> Bob K

Well Im glad you found a vet to let you be there because of all the
vets Ive worked at none of them would have allowed it.
I also do grooming where I work and I must add that without any
exceptions so far that dogs behave for clipping and bathing much
better without their owners around. When the owners are there I think
the dog likes to protect the owner hence me getting bitten, this is
also true of many sick animals. For eg just last week we had a really
sick dog that needed its spleen removed, it was totally viscious with
its owner around needing a muzzle and 2 people to restrain it, once in
hospital away from its owner however it was a total angel :) no muzzle
needed and tail wagging and needing hugging etc :) just amazing and
this happens quite often, just nother reason why sometimes owners
shouldnt be around for surgery.
Kim

by **Sherri L. Burn** » Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I use three vets who are open to my being in surgery. I gained that
privilage when we took a friend's dog in for emergency surgery (hit by
car). It was late at night and a tech was not available. He briefly
explained what I was expected to do and asked if I felt up to it. I was
very happy to be there, I work with this dog on occassion and she was
very upset. She calmed down when I was at her head.

My personal vet also lets me in. He explains everything and if I can
handle this, I'm in. It helps that I worked in this field in the past
in a large kennel.

Some surgeries are complex and I would be uncomfortable being there. A
neuter, tooth removal, etc. is when I request to be there. I have even
been allowed to take my dogs home before they are fully awake. Again, I
have worked in this field, and this is not for everyone.

Sherri

by **Let me see now.** » Mon, 23 Dec 1996 04:00:00

"

Quote:

>My personal vet also lets me in. He explains everything and if I can
>handle this, I'm in. It helps that I worked in this field in the past
>in a large kennel.

It makes a difference that you have worked in this area before.

Quote:

>Some surgeries are complex and I would be uncomfortable being there. A
>neuter, tooth removal, etc. is when I request to be there. I have even
>been allowed to take my dogs home before they are fully awake. Again, I
>have worked in this field, and this is not for everyone.

We have a few people that used to be vet nurses that come to the
clinic where I work and if they want to stay and watch surgery we let
them help with their own animal. It makes a huge difference because
they dont ask what are you doing to my dog in horror when you are
intubating, expresing its bladder etc. I feel that if owners where
present during their animals prep and surgery then the animal would
prolly end up being under anaesthetic longer then necessary because
most people would want to ask lots of questions I know i would if I
was watching my dog and had no experience of such things.
I really agree with owners being with their pets for many many things
at the vets but sometimes you just have to say I think its best if you
leave us to it.
Kim

Quote:

>Sherri

by **Maureen Catlo** » Mon, 23 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> "
> >My personal vet also lets me in. He explains everything and if I can
> >handle this, I'm in. It helps that I worked in this field in the past
> >in a large kennel.I met my current vet when taking care of my friends large kennel.

Because my friend was away for five weeks I wanted first hand knowledge
of anything the vet did. At this same point in time another friend
asked me to take her Rottie litter in for dew claws and tails. ( I know
the dreaded docking) The vet invited me in to watch, he said that
knowledgable dog handlers make his life much easier. I was squeemish at
first but I know exactly what happened. This was a litter I helped
whelp and I wanted to be as much a part of their lives as I could.

Mo

Moon's Graden

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)

being w/ your dog at the vets (odd vet story)