Moon's Graden

Hi, I have a American Eskimo and pomeranian mix. The puppy is 11
months old and cute as can be. However, he does not understand how to
play gently. He is EXTREMELY hyper and very rough. He bites constantly
and when you try and repremand him (in every way possible), he just
thinks you're playing with him and continues to bite even harder. What
can I do to help this puppy be the family dog that he is suppossed to
be?

-Jamie

Take him to obedience classes  and teach him to have responsibilities
and a job.
Learn  discipline as a lifestyle. Learn how you respond determines how
your puppy responds. Training is as much training yourself as training
the dog.
Make his quality of life conditional upon his behavior. You will see
dramatic results.

By no means am I an expert, but I got a ton of good advise on training my
puppy. The advise I received on biting will sound funny, but it's definitely
working for my pup. You mentioned your dog is 11 months old so you will have
to do this is steps. The first step is not to allow him to bite hard. When
he does bit hard say "OUCH" loud, back away from him, and stop playing with
him for a few moments. If you are consistent enough (that's the key), he'll
assume he hurts you when he bites hard. Once he learns that, you can start
doing the same thing when he bites at all (hard or soft). The key to any
training is the more consistent you are the easier it is for the dog to
learn. If you say ouch one time and not the next he won't associate the
biting with the ouch, he'll just figure sometimes it's okay and sometime
it's not.

I thought it sounded funny also when I heard it, but after trying it, it
works. The dog will learn that in order for you to play with him, he has to
play nice.

That's my take on it anyway...

Hello diddler,

Hello Jamie,

Interesting mix...

Yeah? You want him to stay cute and make it to two?

O.K. That's EZ to fix.

I've got the fastest methods in the world to get your pup to want to do
everything you ask...

Reprimand for what? He's a DOG. Dogs don't understand right or wrong
or reprimands, they just make the dog untrustworthy and hyperactive.

My students never even say NO to their dogs.

That's probably cause you're pushing him away when he comes over to
bond... and he's trying to tell you something, and you're not listening...
that's normal, most of my students start off that way and then figure it
out fast.

to be?

Just follow the instructions in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog
Training
Method manual available for FREE at http://www.moonsgarden.com/

His problem isn't obedience, his problem is anxiety behavior. Obedience
training
will most likely aggrevate him moore.

Like you, diddler? You crate train your dog cause you can't properly handle
him.

HOWE about a nice career as a carpet installer? Your dog's got experience.

Yes! Like your dog did when he was making noise all nite long for three
nites straight.

Yeah. As I recall, you put your dog in the box when you couldn't shut him
up.
Then you moved him outsid in the box and couldn't shut him up. Then you
moved him to another location and still couldn't shut him up.

Couldn't be any moore correct, diddler.

An excellent recommendation, diddler, unconditionally.

No doubt, diddler. HOWE much did the surgery cost you to get the carpet
strings
outta your dogs guts that was KILLIN him for three nites that you were busy
working and your CRATE TRAINING??? Nearly killed your own dog like
your pal christman dinan did his favorite dog and tara o just did to two
Boxer Rescue dogs in a row. I'm glad you guys aren't discouraged.

Hello diddler,

Yeah. Like you missed my information on breaking dogs of CHEWING
and besides, you was too busy jerking and *** and scolding your dog.

Didn't it though??? Seein as most every thread is about Jerry Howe
and  why you should KILLFILE the INFORMATION you bums
need and don't have cause if you admit to using my methods, your
pals will be EMBARRASSED after they've been tellin everybody
my methods don't work and I'm a liar and con man.

That's O.K., diddler. I PLANNED it like that... I'm a dog trainer.

INDEED, but HE sees yours, diddler.

Like your dog came close to not existing anyMOORE after
chewin up some stuff and got HURT on it.

Cost you THOUSANDS at the vet??? At least $1500.00, eh diddler?

Seems Jerry's a bit of a problem for ALL of our dog lovers...who like
to jerk and ***and shock and spray aversives in their dog's faces,
diddler.

Have a little whine to wash down the strings of carpet your dog swallowed
cause you used it to cover something else he was chewing...

Save it diddler, you need it for yourself.

You could have avoided the entire incident had you
TRAINED your dog using my methods not to chew
stuff. But you'd rather force, intimidate and barricade
instead of handle and train your dog like a respectable
dog handler and decent human being. Adios... Thug.

Jerry.

Subject: Oh My God
Newsgroups: alt.animals.dog
View this article only
Date: 2002-01-16 13:39:59 PST

Two nights ago, Reka started acting frantic about 11pm.
I let her out. It's coyote breeding season, and she is fascinated
by them. I assumed she wanted to go out and listen to them
howling. I brought her in, and she spent the night franticly and
desperately demanding to go out.

After about 4am, I finally put her in the barn, locked
securely in a horse stall for the night.

She came in by morning, and had a normal active, playful
day. Last night, at 11pm, She franticly DEMANDED to go
out. I let her out, and brought her in. At midnight, she
DEMANDED to be let out. I let her out, but I went out
to the barn and got a crate, and decided she could
spend the rest of the night in the crate. We were NOT
going to do a repeat of the previous night AGAIN.

At 3am, she whined so loudly, I then decided not to
allow her to set a precedence of this type of behavior.
So I took her crate out to the heated gun shop and
decided to let her act out her bad behavior in peace,
and send a message that her obnoxious behavior
was not going to be tolerated.

This morning at 6am, I went out, and she had vomited
(normal looking dog food) and defecated in her crate
(not normal for Reka, but then, She normally didn't
sleep in a crate, NEVER gets corrected (she never does
anything to GET corrected for) and was probably nerves
from the outside experience, plus reprimand and solitary
confinement.)

I let her in the house while I cleaned the cage. Hoping
I had made my point. She acted healthy and normal, and
playful and chipper. But then I noticed a spot of *** on
the bathroom linoleum and in the bathtub. I was the last to
take a bath, so I knew REKA was the last in the tub.

That *** didn't come from me, so it HAD to come from
Reka. Thinking about her nearing the end of her heat cycle,
I still didn't think a lot about it. I thought her obnoxious
behavior the past couple nights WAS her heat cycle..
and corresponding coyote breeding season.

Then while feeding her breakfast, I saw the whole story.
She had *** (fresh) streaming from her RECTUM. UhOh.

I had her at the vets office this morning before he
opened. He just said her intestines were all bunched
up with huge air pockets.

Was there any chance that she ate strings of carpets? I
said, last Thursday we took a plastic tarp out of the yard
that we had over the grill to protect it from the weather
because she was chewing it. That would explain
EVERYTHING.

The  strings are binding and bunching up her intestines,
cutting her internally and tying her intestines in knots as
it works its way through.

Reka is in a very critical situation. She is going to
require extensive and expensive surgery that I cant
afford. I will manage.

Even with the surgery, her condition will be critical
for awhile. Scary thoughts. I would never have
treated her the way I did last night, if I had even a
clue that she was sick. I feel so badly.
--
diddy

Hello Fish,

Well, thank G-d one of us is...

Really? I haven't seen one ounce of it from the experts...

Hey? If the dog wasn't 11 months old, what would change???

O.K. Marilyn's "Chicken Fist" is excellent for that.

That's likely to make the dog think you're participating, and the objective
when breaking behavior problems is to be NEUTRAL, so we don't
become a peer or competitor in the behavior.

The opposition reflex dictates that's likely to compel him forward, to
reengage in biting.
It's the same tactic I use in protecton training.

If mouthing is a bonding activity, refusing contact would be rejection of
his
attempts to bond...

Pssst! There's no method there. The key don't have a lock. Avoiding
behaviors
or giving substitute behaviors only keeps the undesirable behaviors in
force.

And ignoring him will provoke him to take what he's just learned, to get
your attention. We cannot repress or avoid problem behavior and expect
it to go away.

all (hard or soft).

Sorry, there's not enough difference in the behaviors for the dog to choose
between hard or
soft.

for the dog to learn.

Consitstant with a METHOD. You've got no method here, only avoidance and
rejection,
which is bound to wear out in a couple of tries...

And he'll learn that all he's got to do to get you to react to him is to
nip, and you'll go
ouch and he'll go tee hee hee and you'll be standing there with your arms
crossed
and he'll come up behind you and nip you on your ***and you'll uncross
your
arms and pay attention to him, by putting him in the box till he learns to
behave.

O.K...

Well, that's state of the art training amongst our "experts" here.

Works EVERY TIME, don't it????

nice.

And sometimes it works well enough for it to be recommended, but that's
the exception to the rule.

I'm glad it worked for you. There's much faster moore effective methods
available in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual available for FREE at http://www.moonsgarden.com/

You have to love News Groups. You can 100 opinions and then 100
anti-opinions. I love it!!! Thank you everyone for your infomation. I
really appreciate it. By the way, I goofed and said the wrong age for
my puppy. He is now 8 months old, not 11.

If anyone has anymore to add, please do.

Thanks,
Jamie

Eight months old BEGINS the TYPICAL "adolescent rebellious stage" my
students NEVER have on account of we don't do nuthin to cause our dogs to
REBEL ABOUT. Enjoy your puppy. Jerry.

Hi Jamie,

Is it during play he's hyper, or all the time? It may be as simple as
he being in need of more exercise, especially mental exercise. Or
maybe he's getting too much? You don't mention anything about it, so
it's hard to tell. At eight months he doesn't need much physical
exercise, a couple of 20-30 minute long walks a day, preferably off
leash or at least at his own pace allowing him to investigate, should
be enough. Mental exercise may be something like 5 or so minutes 2-4
times a day. Your dog will tell you how much is plenty. Look below for
suggestions on mentally stimulating games.

Good, you have figured it out! Reprimanding him is making him worse,
so you need to try something else. How about if you turn your side to
him, face away, raise your arm to cover your face and stand still.
This makes it boring for him to jump up and down biting. Once he calms
down, you praise him but not so much that he gets e***d again. At
this point I would not give him any treats or start playing, because
that way he may learn that the biting leads to something fun. Instead,
focus on keeping him calm for a few seconds, *then* have him do
something he enjoys doing without getting too e***d. This last bit
is to keep his mind off the rough play and on something more
constructive. During this bit you can use treats. Whenever he gets too
worked up, repeat the standing still as explained above, etc.

I can't figure out whether he gets too worked up during play started
by you, or whether he gets worked up by something and starts playing
rough because of that.

If it's during play started by you, you need to find less stressful
games so that he _remains_ as calm as you need him to be. Avoid games
that involve throwing, playing tug and play fighting with humans.
Obviously, obedience exercises and tricks are great ways to allow the
dog to have fun and use his brain without the stress. Any type of
search games that allow him to use his nose are great. It may be as
simple as tossing a handful of tiny treats or kibble on the ground and
let him spend some time searching. Hiding toys or treats around the
house or outside is great. Clicker training (shaping: sort of like a
hot/cold game) is pure problem solving and very concentration
demanding work. It requires that you learn how to do it, but once you
do it's a lot of fun! See www.clickersolutions.com for more on clicker
training.

If he gets worked up by something, maybe something that makes him
insecure, and starts playing rough as a result, you can try to get
whatever is troubling him under so much control he remains calm. Then
you need to gradually introduce him to whatever is getting him worked
up, but never so much at a time that he has time to get hyper/worked
up. This way you are teaching him to deal with the situation by
remaining calm. As long as he's calm you can use treats, but I'd avoid
stressing games altogether.

That's all :-) I've tried to cover the most likely possibilities, but
it's difficult with so little information. If you want more input, I
suggest you write another post and tell us more about your dog and the
problem.

Have fun with your dog,
Helle
--

Helle Haugenes
http://www.moonsgarden.com/~newshelle

Hello helle,

Sorry helle. Incompetent trainers rely on excessive exercise to
control out of control behviors they cannot train, much like they
rely on crates.

That's more important than walking five miles a day to control behavior.

Could be he gets "overtired" from playing. That's valid.

I think we'll find the other instances of 'nipping' were objections
to being FORCED or CONFRONTED over minor behavior
problems. The evidence of that is our OP hasn't responded to
my posts, knowing he's got to admit to the facts as I see them,
and that goes against "common sense" of the majority who
call themselves 'experts,' including his veterinarian. So, that's
the state of the art. We hurt and kill dogs cause we're "expert"
trainers and true experts are screwballs cause they don't ***
shock crate hang and kill dogs to train them.

You mean do five miles of exercise a day to control out of control
behaviors you can't train, helle.

My methods require 5 minutes every other day after the intitial training
of about an hour.

I have a problem for trainers telling us their dogs will tell us what's
appropriate training.

This dog isn't in need of GAMES helle, the OWNER is in need of
handling and training techniques.. You're barely capable of handling and
training a dog without causing any problems helle. That's good for our
group.

Figger it out from here, helle. They're trying to FORCE CONTROL, and
that's what drives dogs and children OUT of control, helle. You know that,
don't you? BUT you DON'T know HOWE to address the problems.

harder.

This is very EZ to fix.

EXCELLENT! Now HOWE do we handle problems like this, helle?

EXACTLY! What??? You tell us huh, helle?

Sounds like practice for the A Bomb.

That's the least effective way of doing it and may reinforce the behavior.

Not quite, helle, but close. NOT close enough, but close for this group
of dog loving experts.

Excellent.

Well, not quite, but close enough for here.

You mean distract him so far from the "lesson" that you never extinguish
the behavior properly so you'll always have to deal with it like that.

The pup is coming over to BOND, helle. Ignoring the pup will be rejection.

And distract the dog too far from the lesson you was supposed to
be teaching.

above, etc.

Which should quicly teach the pup to go through this whole rigaramorole to
get a treat.

to be?

Well, I can't figure out what the heel difference it makes? Are you capable
of controling the dog's behaviors helle, OR NOT? Level with us.

Yes, avoiding the behavior would prevent but not train it. Perhaps the
dog will forget about it if we avoid it long enough???

humans.

That's absurd, helle.Proper handling and training techniques do not rely
on avoiding every day behaviors.

Perhaps, that is if we don't start off with ***or pronged spiked pinch
***or shock collars and corretions to train the dog.

That's great fun...

Sounds terribly challenging!!!

O.K., if you say so.

Oh. Like the Hot And Cold Exercise taught in your FREE copy of my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE
at http://www.moonsgarden.com/

Is that the clicker training that's so effective that gary wilckox has come
up
with "DELAYED PUNISHMENT" to round off the rough edges, helle? Huh?
Is that the clicker training like liea and Cubbe RELY on when she's not
using
her pronged spiked pinch ***and shock devices to control her out of
control CLICKER trained dog who recently snapped at a child when they
walked into her SHOCK ZONE, helle? Is that the same clicker training
that leah used when Madigan bit her on her nose and on her finger? Is
that the same clicker training lying frosty dahl wrote about in "clicker
project fizzles???" Huh helle? Figger it out, your clicker training methods
do not effectively control out of control behaviors without weeks of
conditioning incompatible behaviors... the concept itself is more
sophisticated
than most of our readers have the intellect to master, given lying frosty
dahl
as prima fascia evidence for that. Take blankman and leah and liea to boot.

Doubletalk. You've hit the wall, helle. That's what happens when we
run outta ideas and information.

Unless you was fixin to flood the behavior as is appropriate in some
circumstances.

calm.

Right. That's the most imprtant part.

altogether.

 Sounds like you changed your mind from telling us to do games. Maybe you
mean
"games" which rely on treats to train them?

Well, that was refreshing.

so little information.

Yeah, that's HOWE COME I try to teach you, but you don't have the intellect
to deal with the caliber information I've got. I tried to take it slow so
you'd be
able to follow the concept, but it scares you when you realize most of what
you've been taught is incorrect, so you refuse to learn.

What color is the dog, helle?

Yes, fun. HOWE about some retriever training, that's always FUN!!!

Oh, hey? Lookey here whot I found:

 "I don't see why anyone would want to ***or beat a dog,
 or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog by
 making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
 frosty dahl who continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
require much more frequent and heavy application of
pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the
job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it
yourself. Tougher,  less tractable dogs may require you to progress
to striking them more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar,  even
the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping
theear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb
even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting
your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand, As it
catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is
digging out to ...

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8 months is when force trained dogs usually begin to turn on their alphalpha
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