OK or not OK , You tell me .......

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OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by mike » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00



does having your beagles in a pen off the ground with wire
mesh for the floor somehow hurt the dogs paws or anything
else OR is it OK ? Is it against the law ?

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OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Toni » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
> does having your beagles in a pen off the ground with wire
> mesh for the floor somehow hurt the dogs paws or anything
> else OR is it OK ? Is it against the law ?

Yes, the wire hurts their paws.
It is not ok.

--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Check the "Update on Steve"

 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by mike » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00


thanks for your response. I not the one doing that . I'm
trying to lobby my city council to ban them . I think they
are cruel but I can't seem to find any laws making them
illegal here in Canada. Does any one else have any info
that might help me ?

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OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Nancy E. Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffi » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00


it depends on the kind of wire - if you look at how the raised puppy pens
are made you can see that there is wire and then there is wire and they are
not all the same
hardware cloth is awful and tears up dog feet plastic coated wire I have
heard is kinder on the feet as is smooth wire spaced closely enough together
not to let pads slip through - like the grates in the pet store cages
in a small confined area IMO wire of the proper kind would be preferable to
the dogs standing in feces and urine in pens on the ground
ie the mill is miserable for a dog but oh my it could be worse :-(
Nancy

Quote:

>does having your beagles in a pen off the ground with wire
>mesh for the floor somehow hurt the dogs paws or anything
>else OR is it OK ? Is it against the law ?

>* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is
Beautiful
 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by C. A. Brow » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00


I don't know where in Canada you are or if you can make use of this but it's
a quote directly from the city of Toronto Animal  Control ByLaw. You might
be able to make a case from the insulated enclosure aspect.

       " 6.     If an animal is  customarily kept out of  doors, the  person
having the custody  or
control of the animal shall provide  for its use at all  times a
structurally sufficient, weather-
proofed and insulated enclosure of appropriate size and dimension."

Good luck. It seems like a dumb way to contain any animal to me.


Quote:
> thanks for your response. I not the one doing that . I'm
> trying to lobby my city council to ban them . I think they
> are cruel but I can't seem to find any laws making them
> illegal here in Canada. Does any one else have any info
> that might help me ?

> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is
Beautiful
 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Toni » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00




Quote:
> in a small confined area IMO wire of the proper kind would be preferable
to
> the dogs standing in feces and urine in pens on the ground
> ie the mill is miserable for a dog but oh my it could be worse :-(
> Nancy

In MY opinion, anyone keeping dogs in elevated wire bottomed pens is just a
lazy sob looking for a way around cleaning up sh*t.

--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Check the "Update on Steve"

 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Delites Shih Tz » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> In MY opinion, anyone keeping dogs in elevated wire bottomed pens is >just a
> lazy sob looking for a way around cleaning up sh*t.

WELL, my dogs travel in pens with a grated bottom.  And when they have
to be crated they are kept in crated with a grated bottom.  
However let me note, my dogs dont LIVE in any kind of crate/pen, they
live in my house.
But there are a million and one reasons to use grates besides being
lazy.

--
Susan
Shih Tzu Delites
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/shihtzudelites/
Topknots & Tails Petgrooming
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/shihtzudelites/topknotsandtails.html

"Dogs aren't our whole life, they make our lives whole"...Roger Caras

 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Toni » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00




Quote:
> WELL, my dogs travel in pens with a grated bottom.  And when they have
> to be crated they are kept in crated with a grated bottom.
> However let me note, my dogs dont LIVE in any kind of crate/pen, they
> live in my house.
> But there are a million and one reasons to use grates besides being
> lazy.

I did NOT mean grates in the bottom of crates........we use them in the
grooming shop, also.

I distinctly said "elevated, wire bottomed PENS", i.e. permanent
confinement.

I feel that there is a big difference between grates and wire bottomed pens.

--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Check the "Update on Steve"

 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Delites Shih Tz » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> I feel that there is a big difference between grates and wire bottomed >pens.

Ah, but is the average pet owner reading this going to make that
distinction?  Or will they see my dogs in a crate with a wire grate in
the bottom and think I'm one of those cruel bastards?

--
Susan
Shih Tzu Delites
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/shihtzudelites/
Topknots & Tails Petgrooming
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/shihtzudelites/topknotsandtails.html

"Dogs aren't our whole life, they make our lives whole"...Roger Caras

 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Nancy E. Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffi » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00


I don't disagree Toni - but if the concept is to make life better for the
dogs being kept in such circumstances I'm sorry but the elevated pen is
better than one on the ground sad as it is :-( as long as the wire type is
not offsetting the value of not standing in shit up to their ears by
trashing the dog's feet and body. I am keeping in mind that the owners are
not likely to do anything different in animal care and focussing on the poor
critters owned by them.
Also I know many a toy breeder who uses the commercial puppy pens to raise
pups in - and I'm talking about decent show breeders too - they do it to
keep the pups and mom off the floor out of drafts and clean while the pups
are learning housebreaking and consider my x-pen with layered newspapers and
blankies etc as unhealthy and unsafe for pups no matter how clean and draft
free it is kept - now raising an IW safely on wire would be a bit more
challenging :-) but many toy breeders (not me) do it.
Nancy
Quote:



>> in a small confined area IMO wire of the proper kind would be preferable
>to
>> the dogs standing in feces and urine in pens on the ground
>> ie the mill is miserable for a dog but oh my it could be worse :-(
>> Nancy

>In MY opinion, anyone keeping dogs in elevated wire bottomed pens is just a
>lazy sob looking for a way around cleaning up sh*t.

>--
>Toni
>www.irish-wolfhounds.com
>Check the "Update on Steve"

 
 
 

OK or not OK , You tell me .......

Post by Toni » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
----- Original Message -----


Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Grates....... wire

> I agree, but does the average pet person know the difference?

Maybe not, but I guess it is a sore spot with me.

In the 70's I went once a year to a "breeder" of***ers to shave down all
their dogs. No baths, mind you..... just a shave. These dogs were kept in
pens like this, rabbit hutches really, and the feet on those dogs were
unforgetable. The ***was 2 feet high under the pens, and when it got
really deep (!), they simply moved the pens over a few feet.
Makes the barrels and chains of the midwest look absolutely comfortable.

I was too young and stupid to actually do anything about it, and have never
forgotten.
Years later I groomed for a "real kennel" with maybe 200 puppies for sale on
premesis, all breeds. They kept them the same way, and the baby puppy feet
regularly went thru, and got stuck.

When I saw your reply, I was worried that you thought that *I* thought
grates were evil... I don't.
But the golldarned elevated pens are.

Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Check the "Update on Steve"