New owners - are we doing the right thing

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New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by PowerROTT » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00



I noticed you say you got the dog for your daughter, yet it
seems like you are planning on keeping the dog out in the yard
for most of it's life. The dog will be allowed to come in from
time to time????  Maybe you should have bought your daughter a
goldfish that she can keep in her room.

If you won't rescue don't breed
http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Peter Hartikk » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> When she cries at night, which she does maybe 2 or 3 times, we take her
> outside and wait until she does a wee. We wait a little to see if she will
> also do a poo. Then we pat her a little and put her back, and so far she has
> been pretty good at going back to sleep. If she cries, we wait a little,
> then go and pat her a little more to quieten here down and put her back.

Hmmm... who's getting trained here??

The problem is that she might learn to associate her crying with the "reward"
of being let outside and patted.  As difficult as it may be, you should try to
simply ignore the crying.  Only let her out & play with her when she has *not*
cried for at least 5 minutes.

It sounds cruel, but unless you want her to cry and whine like this her whole
life, you should try to break her of the habit.  If it does continue, you might
consider saying "No" in a stern voice whenever she does it.  Also, dogs
generally won't soil their "dens," so as long as you let her pee & poo before
bed and first thing in the morning, she should be OK.  Don't feed or water her
too close to her bedtime, and don't allow free access to her water during the
night if you think wetting will be a problem.

Good luck!

-Peter in Seattle (also with a new 8-week-old puppy, who hardly cries at all
anymore)

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Tracy Landaue » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00


I can understand those concerns, and I'm glad you've recognized that you
could use a hand and are seeking advice here, but I think perhaps in
hindsight an older dog might've suited your situation better given those
concerns.  To relegate a puppy to the back yard (most of the time) goes
against its entire nature; in the wild, there was safety in numbers, and
young animals especially are extremely pack-oriented.  Your family is
now its pack, so your puppy is bound to feel very stressed and anxious
when she's separated from you so often.  I'm by no means recommending
you give her free reign in your house at this tender age, but I would
sure think seriously about at least crating her at night in your
bedroom, and puppy-proofing a small room (or at least move her playpen
into an area more central in the home) so that she can see and hear your
daily activity and know she's part of the pack.  Some dogs do just fine
being primarily outdoor dogs, but IME, it just as frequently leads to
the development of problem behaviors such as nuisance barking and
jumping up on you for attention.  Something to consider.

Tracy Landauer

Quote:

> Maybe we will let our dog in to our house lots more when she's trained and
> older. But not right now. If don't know a lot about bringing up a puppy, our
> daughter knows even less and it would be simply too stressful for the whole
> family (humans and our cat) to give the puppy access to every room in our
> house. Too much to monitor, too many cords to bite, too many things to chew,
> too much carpet to soil, etc.



> > I noticed you say you got the dog for your daughter, yet it
> > seems like you are planning on keeping the dog out in the yard
> > for most of it's life. The dog will be allowed to come in from
> > time to time????  Maybe you should have bought your daughter a
> > goldfish that she can keep in her room.

> > If you won't rescue don't breed
> > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

> > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
> *
> > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Dianne Schoenbe » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00




Quote:
>it would be simply too stressful for the whole family (humans and our
>cat) to give the puppy access to every room in our house. Too much to
>monitor, too many cords to bite, too many things to chew, too much carpet
>to soil, etc.

There's a very big difference between working towards an
eventual goal of having a housepet and giving a young
puppy the run of a house. I agree with you entirely that
young puppies *do* need constant monitoring when they
are free and need to be safely confined when you can't.
But be aware that relegating Puppy to the backyard is
likely to result in problems too--there's all that
dirt to dig in, interesting things to chew, and leaves
and neighbors to bark at. Long-term, the problems
will be less if your puppy gets plenty of time and
attention from his "pack".

You are doing the right thing by seeking advice and
I hope that you are learning some helpful things here.

Dianne

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by May » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00


On Thu, 4 May 2000 09:23:05 +1000,"John New (Gresham)"

linen:

Quote:
>So during the day she has the run of an enclosed grassy backyard, which she
>shares with our cat. Now, I work at home most weekdays, so I have been going
>out every 2-3 hours to play and check on her etc. So we don't control her
>movements during the day, she can wee and poo where and when she likes in
>our backgarden. It's pretty shabby, so we thought she can't do much wrong.

If you want a house trained dog, this is not the way to achieve your
goal.  Puppies need to be with their people, not exiled to the back
yard.  There are plenty of things a puppy can get into alone in the
yard, lots of stuff she could eat that could hurt her.  Being alone
out in the yard, she will get bored and find ways to amuse herself
that you may not like, such as digging holes to China and barking at
everything that moves.  This will make her unpopular with the
neighbors as well.
What is your goal in having a dog?  If this dog is to be a member of
your family and companion, then she needs to be with you as much as
possible in order to form a good bond with you.  If you want her to
guard your property, you want her to be with you and in the house as
much as possible so that she forms a bond with you and considers the
house to be her territory, not just the yard.  If you want her as a
lawn ornament, then leaving her out in the yard alone is just fine.
Quote:
>When we go out on the weekend, we plan to leave her in the backyard by
>herself.

This is a really bad idea.  How do you plan to provide food and water
for the weekend?  What if she turns her water bowl over the first day
and eats all of the food?  What if the food in the yard attracts
animals such as raccoons or possums, and she gets into a fight with
one of them defending her food?  What if someone gets tired of her
barking while you are gone (and she will.......), and throws treats
soaked in antifreeze over the fence to silence her?  What if someone
looking for animals to sell to a laboratory sees her there alone and
steals her?  What if a child climbs the fence, annoys her, and gets
bitten?  I could go on.....  If you are planning to go away for
weekends, you need to find a good boarding kennel for her to stay in
while  you are gone, hire a pet-sitter to stay in the house with her,
or take her along.  There are just too many things that can go wrong
in the course of a weekend- you would be heartbroken if you came home
and found her injured or even dead.
Quote:

>Does all this sound reasonable.

Not really.....remember, puppies are like babies.  They have a need
for human contact. Go to the library or the bookstore and look at the
books about puppy raising...."How to Raise a Puppy You Can Live With"
or "The Howell Book of Puppy Raising" from the Howell press, or
"Mother Knows Best" by Carol Lea Benjamin both come to mind.
Get one or more and read them...
Quote:
> We don't want to start off in a way that
>will make it harder later on. We plan to take to take her to puppy classes
>in a week or so, and later to obedience classes.

That is an excellent idea.  Puppy classes are a whole lot of fun, and
if it is a good puppy class, you will also learn what makes a puppy
tick.  Getting off on the right foot is important because you can
avoid making the mistakes that lead to being unhappy with the dog.
The more time you can spend with her now the better your relationship
with her is going to be.  Good luck, and remember to have fun....

__
Ruth Mays
Beautiful Downtown Cinnaminson, NJ

I recommend to all rpdb readers that Jerry Howe
should be ignored as a crank and waste of time

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Peter Hartikk » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> You are teaching her
> to wake you when she wants to go.  This is good!  You want her to wake you
> if she has to go.

However, when my pup cries, it's generally right after we leave her in the
(gated) kitchen to go to bed, just after her final "walk" of the evening.  It's a
cry of fear and loneliness, not an "I have to pee" cry.

Of course, if your dog's cries are really all related to having to go out, that's
a different story.   It's great if she pees every time you let her out when she
cries; but does she also pee when you let her out when she *hasn't* been crying?
If so, then the crying is probably sometimes due to her isolation, and not simply
to her full bladder.  YMMV and so forth.

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Peter Hartikk » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> she will get bored and find ways to amuse herself
> that you may not like, such as digging holes to China

... or, in the case of an Australian puppy, digging holes to England.  ;-)
 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Gresh » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00


We are brand new puppy owners, having just acquired a lovely 8-week beagle
puppy named Daisy for our 11-yr-old daugther, and are trying to learn
everything we need very quickly on the run.

We would appreciate advice on the basics - toilet training and sleeping.

At night what we do is put Daisy in a small baby playpen - about 4' x 3' -
with her basket and blankets, etc, and a few toys. She can't get out because
we have wrapped strong material around the bars. She sleeps inside in our
family room, which we can close off, with cork tiles, and we put paper on
the floor in the area she sleeps in. We thought of crate training and have
collected lots of articles from the internet about the method, but just
don't like the idea, it seems too confining and thought that a playpen would
be OK.

When she cries at night, which she does maybe 2 or 3 times, we take her
outside and wait until she does a wee. We wait a little to see if she will
also do a poo. Then we pat her a little and put her back, and so far she has
been pretty good at going back to sleep. If she cries, we wait a little,
then go and pat her a little more to quieten here down and put her back.
Generally she is sleeping from about 9pm to 6pm with a couple of
interruptions. We are doing much the same thing we did with our two children
when they were babies (not that we took them outside, etc.!).

During the day, we move her basket outside to a sheltered verandah area with
her toys, because we want her to generally be an outdoors do, except for
coming in to this family room area. Eventually when she is older, we plan to
buy her a kennel and put that in the verandah area so she will sleep outside
too. But still come in from time to time.

So during the day she has the run of an enclosed grassy backyard, which she
shares with our cat. Now, I work at home most weekdays, so I have been going
out every 2-3 hours to play and check on her etc. So we don't control her
movements during the day, she can wee and poo where and when she likes in
our backgarden. It's pretty shabby, so we thought she can't do much wrong.

When we go out on the weekend, we plan to leave her in the backyard by
herself.

Does all this sound reasonable. We don't want to start off in a way that
will make it harder later on. We plan to take to take her to puppy classes
in a week or so, and later to obedience classes.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

John New

Sydney, Australia

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Gresh » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00


Maybe we will let our dog in to our house lots more when she's trained and
older. But not right now. If don't know a lot about bringing up a puppy, our
daughter knows even less and it would be simply too stressful for the whole
family (humans and our cat) to give the puppy access to every room in our
house. Too much to monitor, too many cords to bite, too many things to chew,
too much carpet to soil, etc.


Quote:
> I noticed you say you got the dog for your daughter, yet it
> seems like you are planning on keeping the dog out in the yard
> for most of it's life. The dog will be allowed to come in from
> time to time????  Maybe you should have bought your daughter a
> goldfish that she can keep in her room.

> If you won't rescue don't breed
> http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Gresh » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00


Peter,

Quote:
> Hmmm... who's getting trained here??

> The problem is that she might learn to associate her crying with the
"reward"
> of being let outside and patted.  As difficult as it may be, you should
try to
> simply ignore the crying.  Only let her out & play with her when she has
*not*
> cried for at least 5 minutes.

This is a good point. We've thought about it and are not really sure what to
do. When she cries, we have been waiting for a short break before we do
anything. We also don't want to disturb our neighbours who work shifts and
don't like noise at night. I guess we're worred that if we left her she
could cry for a long time.

Quote:
> It sounds cruel, but unless you want her to cry and whine like this her
whole
> life, you should try to break her of the habit.  If it does continue, you
might
> consider saying "No" in a stern voice whenever she does it.  Also, dogs
> generally won't soil their "dens," so as long as you let her pee & poo
before
> bed and first thing in the morning, she should be OK.  Don't feed or water
her
> too close to her bedtime, and don't allow free access to her water during
the
> night if you think wetting will be a problem.

We've been feeding her maybe an hour before she goes to bed. Maybe that's
too close because we've noticed she has usually wet the newspaper in in her
area when we go out to her the first time.

Quote:
> Good luck!

Thanks.

Quote:
> -Peter in Seattle (also with a new 8-week-old puppy, who hardly cries at
all
> anymore)

So what did you do?

John

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Marshall Derm » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
>Maybe we will let our dog in to our house lots more when she's trained and
>older. But not right now. If don't know a lot about bringing up a puppy, our
>daughter knows even less and it would be simply too stressful for the whole
>family (humans and our cat) to give the puppy access to every room in our
>house. Too much to monitor, too many cords to bite, too many things to chew,
>too much carpet to soil, etc.

Well, how about making the rooms that you most use puppy safe??? Dogs
are social creatures and I assume you want your puppy to bond with
family members? Otherwise, why get a dog?

--Marshall

       Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of

                     http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

        "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
         and is thus a source of civilized delight."  -- William Safire

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by black.. » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00



: Maybe we will let our dog in to our house lots more when she's trained and
: older. But not right now. If don't know a lot about bringing up a puppy, our
: daughter knows even less and it would be simply too stressful for the whole
: family (humans and our cat) to give the puppy access to every room in our
: house. Too much to monitor, too many cords to bite, too many things to chew,
: too much carpet to soil, etc.

Let me recommend that you gather some more information about the dog
raising decision you are making.  The book "The Body Language and Emotions
of Dogs" by M. Milani DVM won't read you any lectures, nor tell you how
you "should" raise a dog.  It will, however, help you understand the
nature of a dog better, and the likely consequences of decisions you do
make.  More than 65% of puppies are given up by their original owners
before the age of two years old.  In most cases the problem is that the
dog has not been provided a solid social foundation.  The result is
behaviors most humans find objectionable.

Is raising an eight week old puppy one heck of a lot of work?  Yes, 100%
absolutely.  For that reason most families would do better to start with
an older dog.  A dog that is older than two is the best prospect for
fitting into the lives of a busy family with limited dog
experience.

Diane Blackman
Play is necessary to the fullest development of any intelligent being.
http://www.dog-play.com/

Re: Jerry Howe http://www.dog-play.com/jerry.html

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by jd.. » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00


Your housetraining plan sounds very sensible to me.  I respectfully disagree
with Peter, who thinks you will teach her to wake you.  You are teaching her
to wake you when she wants to go.  This is good!  You want her to wake you
if she has to go.  At 8 weeks she is a baby.  I know you wouldn't expect a
toddler you are training to go all night without a potty break at first?  As
long as she doesn't get a play session after she wakes you, I wouldn't worry
too much.  Some dogs just can't hold it all night, including mine.  A lot of
people can't, either.

The part where most people, including me, will tell you that you are making
a mistake is in expecting her to be an outside dog.  That will slow down or
stop her housetraining, allow her to pick up more vermin, and develop bad
behaviors.  As so many others said, dogs are pack animals.  You want her to
bond with your pack.  If she can sleep in the bedroom with you (with the
playpen) so much the better.  I can understand why she doesn't have the run
of the whole house since she's so young.  Puppy proof one room where the
people are and let her in it.  I think most people use baby gates to close
off rooms.  As I have mentioned before in this newsgroup, I rescued a dog
that had been kept as an outside dog for 2 years.  I kept her for 12 more
years until she had to be put down, but she never bonded with me.  She never
cared for any people, really.  And she was also kinda dumb, which I think
was the result of being ignored during her formative years.

Your idea about puppy classes and obedience is a good one.  See if you can
find one that will let the kids observe you handle the dog.  When I took
obedience they only wanted one handler for the dog but encouraged all family
members to come watch and get advice.

All I know about Australia is what I learned from watching Animal Planet.  I
think in some areas there is a terrible flea problem.  And isn't it too hot
much of the time to leave the dog outside?  I thought Australia was one of
those areas where even the poorest houses have air conditioning?  Good Luck,
jdoee and Stacey Dog

----------

Quote:

> We are brand new puppy owners, having just acquired a lovely 8-week beagle
> puppy named Daisy for our 11-yr-old daugther, and are trying to learn
> everything we need very quickly on the run.

> We would appreciate advice on the basics - toilet training and sleeping.

> At night what we do is put Daisy in a small baby playpen - about 4' x 3' -
> with her basket and blankets, etc, and a few toys. She can't get out because
> we have wrapped strong material around the bars. She sleeps inside in our
> family room, which we can close off, with cork tiles, and we put paper on
> the floor in the area she sleeps in. We thought of crate training and have
> collected lots of articles from the internet about the method, but just
> don't like the idea, it seems too confining and thought that a playpen would
> be OK.

> When she cries at night, which she does maybe 2 or 3 times, we take her
> outside and wait until she does a wee. We wait a little to see if she will
> also do a poo. Then we pat her a little and put her back, and so far she has
> been pretty good at going back to sleep. If she cries, we wait a little,
> then go and pat her a little more to quieten here down and put her back.
> Generally she is sleeping from about 9pm to 6pm with a couple of
> interruptions. We are doing much the same thing we did with our two children
> when they were babies (not that we took them outside, etc.!).

> During the day, we move her basket outside to a sheltered verandah area with
> her toys, because we want her to generally be an outdoors do, except for
> coming in to this family room area. Eventually when she is older, we plan to
> buy her a kennel and put that in the verandah area so she will sleep outside
> too. But still come in from time to time.

> So during the day she has the run of an enclosed grassy backyard, which she
> shares with our cat. Now, I work at home most weekdays, so I have been going
> out every 2-3 hours to play and check on her etc. So we don't control her
> movements during the day, she can wee and poo where and when she likes in
> our backgarden. It's pretty shabby, so we thought she can't do much wrong.

> When we go out on the weekend, we plan to leave her in the backyard by
> herself.

> Does all this sound reasonable. We don't want to start off in a way that
> will make it harder later on. We plan to take to take her to puppy classes
> in a week or so, and later to obedience classes.

> Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

> John New

> Sydney, Australia

 
 
 

New owners - are we doing the right thing

Post by Elaine Gallan » Fri, 05 May 2000 04:00:00


Hang in there. Beagles are notoriously difficult to housebreak.

Quote:

>We are brand new puppy owners, having just acquired a lovely 8-week beagle
>puppy named Daisy for our 11-yr-old daugther, and are trying to learn
>everything we need very quickly on the run.

>We would appreciate advice on the basics - toilet training and sleeping.

>At night what we do is put Daisy in a small baby playpen - about 4' x 3' -
>with her basket and blankets, etc, and a few toys. She can't get out
because
>we have wrapped strong material around the bars. She sleeps inside in our
>family room, which we can close off, with cork tiles, and we put paper on
>the floor in the area she sleeps in. We thought of crate training and have
>collected lots of articles from the internet about the method, but just
>don't like the idea, it seems too confining and thought that a playpen
would
>be OK.

>When she cries at night, which she does maybe 2 or 3 times, we take her
>outside and wait until she does a wee. We wait a little to see if she will
>also do a poo. Then we pat her a little and put her back, and so far she
has
>been pretty good at going back to sleep. If she cries, we wait a little,
>then go and pat her a little more to quieten here down and put her back.
>Generally she is sleeping from about 9pm to 6pm with a couple of
>interruptions. We are doing much the same thing we did with our two
children
>when they were babies (not that we took them outside, etc.!).

>During the day, we move her basket outside to a sheltered verandah area
with
>her toys, because we want her to generally be an outdoors do, except for
>coming in to this family room area. Eventually when she is older, we plan
to
>buy her a kennel and put that in the verandah area so she will sleep
outside
>too. But still come in from time to time.

>So during the day she has the run of an enclosed grassy backyard, which she
>shares with our cat. Now, I work at home most weekdays, so I have been
going
>out every 2-3 hours to play and check on her etc. So we don't control her
>movements during the day, she can wee and poo where and when she likes in
>our backgarden. It's pretty shabby, so we thought she can't do much wrong.

>When we go out on the weekend, we plan to leave her in the backyard by
>herself.

>Does all this sound reasonable. We don't want to start off in a way that
>will make it harder later on. We plan to take to take her to puppy classes
>in a week or so, and later to obedience classes.

>Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

>John New

>Sydney, Australia