> Your post about desensitizing Finn was interesting.
Yeah, showed HOWE little tara knows about handling
and training dogs.
> I'm using a similar method with Shayna,
Didn't you succeed with our ***y maida and his competitor
he sent you to?
> but have not been using a clicker.
Forget about that damned clicker.
> Instead, I've been using my voice
> ("watch me")
> with treats
To feed your own ego.
> when she behaves appropriately.
Isn't that nice. Then you diminish the treats? Or do you
continue to increase treats with improved behavior?
You ain't got no answer for that, do you carol? Look at
what you're doin. You tell the dog to watch you and treat
for good behavior. Then you discontinue the 'rewards?'
Or do you increase the reward?
> Of course, she tends to watch my hand or pocket...
Cause you've taught her GREED, not understanding and
> the source of those yummies...
> rather than my face,
Your face shows her your fear and lies. She wants to hide
from that and everything else you tell her.
> but at least she stops focusing on the other dog momentarily.
Yes, for a food bribe so the other dog doesn't get it from her.
> Here are my questions:
Didn't ***y maida and his competitor train you and Shayna
to like other dogs and be safe and friendly?
> if I've understood your method,
Like you understood ***y's methods? That was the pronged
spiked pinch ***collar, wasn't it carol? Did you advance to
the shock collar? Or did her turning on you for hurting her in
the presence of other dogs scare you away from HURTING
her someMOORE? Or did she pull you down and break your rib
before you got to that? See the thread "broken rib."
> you were using the clicker to get Finn's attention, correct?
Brilliant. Of course, commanding the dog's attention takes
his thoughts TOO FAR AWAY from the problem you're training.
> As opposed to the click signifying "you've already done
> something that I want so now you're about to get a treat?"
I'm not going to discuss the variety of ways the clicker cue is used.
You're clicker will never be effective as long as it's paired with food.
> Did you use the clicker for anything other than desensitizing
> Finn to other dogs?
One has nuthin to do with the other.
> Did he ever learn to relax around other dogs or did he just
> learn to ignore them and focus on you?
This was a YEARS LONG project. The liklihood is the dog
would have got over his anxiety in that time anyHOWE
without the click cue.
I think the narcotics and pain he was in was moore responsible
for distracting him from the other dogs. The bad hip made him
not pull, and the diminished tension on his collar was what
cured the aggression.
> (I'd accept either with Shayna...
You'll do ANYTHING to cure her aggression, except NOT HURT
> I'm just curious about your results.)
Birds of a feather.
> Did it ever progress to the point where you could stop using
> the clicker because he knew what he was supposed to do?
The clicker doesn't teach situational learning or understanding,
it only cues an unthinking behavior.
> This sounds like something that would work with my dog.
Our dog lovers fear dogs that think.
> From agility classes, she knows what a clicker signifies...
Yeah? I can't imagine HOWE COME you'd need to click in
agility except on the table and that silly yellow paws line on
the gizmo. The teamwork alone, should cause the work to
flow flawlessly cause the dog is in such high gear working
with his partner, as in hunting... That's HOWE COME I can't
imagine youz guys twisting and pinching and shocking and
*** dogs to make them to their most favorite doggy jobs.
> and she is _extremely_ food-oriented.
That's ridiculuous. That "food orientation" is greed and insecurity.
> We've made some progress.
BWWWWWAAAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAA!!! See "broken rib."
> On a casual walk,
Shayna bolted after a critter and broke you up, big time. That's
long after ***y maida and his competitor taught your dog to
turn on you for hurting her when she growled at other dogs,
EXACTLY as I TOLD YOU SO.
> her safety zone is now about 25 feet from a large dog
> (less, if the dog is very calm),
> and double that for a small dog.
Doesn't that demonstrate her response is FEAR, not aggression?
> If we're training, we can get a little closer,
Because she feels you're in control. Saying that, it's obvious
that when she's on lead on heel, she's not convinced you are
in control cause you're not issuing commands and threatening
her, as she's been forced to heel with your pain inflicting devices
till they're no longer meaningful. That means you've got to increase
the pressure. The pressure is already at MAXIMUM, that's HOWE
COME she's turned on you for hurting her in the presence of other
dogs, and that's HOWE COME she'll bolt and break your ribs,
unelss you're HYPERVIGILANT and prepared to HURT her TO
> but she is definitely not relaxed.
The problem is the trainer, NOT THE DOG.
> I don't know how much more I can expect.
My student Valerie cured her dog/dog/handler/child
aggression in under three days, by learning HOWE
to handle the dog without pain and intimidation.
Nevyn cured his two *** fighing pit x kelpie ***es
in 23 days flat.
> More detail, please?
All the information you need to know is in your FREE
copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual.
Write me for the latest edition.
> Thanks, Carol
Your trainer ***y maida offered to endors the FREE
Wits' End Dog Training Method manual if I'd lay off of
exposing him "cause he's got to make a living."
Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success Ive had with your training
manual! My two mutts have gone from out-of-control psychos to obedient well
behaved companions within a matter of weeks! AND My friends have seen the
success and have asked me to work on their dogs! I was working with a 5
month old Ridgeback female today and she was being an angel after like an
hour of working with her! it is AMAZING!! I pity those fools who take their
dogs to classes where the "Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they have a
degree? A masters? a Phd? by the way? NO they are average joes off the
street who think they know how to train dogs!)
Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!
NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.
Never give out your password or credit card number in an
instant message conversation.
How are you?
My dogs are alot better now!
I can let them inside and they wont eat the cats
what did you do, buy a shock collar?
you think they're 100% better
'cept they still bark at the neighbour but only coz he swears at them and
pours water on them
nahh they still have stinky breath!
I'll go for that
it'll take a couple more days to break the neighbor thing if you're
then he won't swear and throw water at them
yeah but he's only out on the weekends
but they'll still have stinky breath
you gonna write the group and tell them they're suckin hind teat?
my news server isn't workin
how about u just screenshot or copy this chat and post it
sorry been tryin all day to get on the news server
you got anything you'd like to tell the dog lovers who would prefer
to see you ***and shock and lock your dogs in a box?
I guess you don't want to tell them nuthin that they don't already know,
tell them they're ***ers who need to die
dogs aren't for abusing they are for loving they love so much
that's HOWE COME they got me now
howe much training time did it take for the two of 'em?
it didn't even seem like training
its been 24 days since I got your manual
have you got that feeling that they're in tune with EVERYTHING you're
wanting them to do?
I forgot what city you're in.
maybe if you're near alphalpha sweeny you can swing by and LAUGH your ass
off at him growling at his dogs???
I'm in Perth, Australia!
and yes they do seem to be in tune
oh!! the other day my dogs went into *** position when a
tiny little toy poodle came up barking at them! !LOL
they knew they didn't need to fight, cause everything was in
your expert control.
Keep up the good work. j;~)
Subject: Newsgroups: rec. pets. dogs. behavior
View this article only
Date: 2002-03-01 03:15:50 PST
I have two mungrel females; the breeds exactly are Blue Heeler
(spots) x Kelpi (*** genes) x American Pitbull (behavioural) x Pug
They are gentle loving dogs when I'm at home with them, and they are
friendly with unknown people. They are sisters. One is obviously
*** over the other, and I don't have a problem with that,
Their behaviour is
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