clicker training question

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clicker training question

Post by Christ » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00




Quote:
> Can't seem to get my two dogs used to the clicker, they still cring when
it
> clicks and look to me for help.  They are getting used to the toaster,
cuckoo
> clock, but still hate the noisy kitchen timer that dings and thunder,
well, we
> have to be in our crates where it is safe when that goes on.  Both are
rescue
> dogs so I have no idea why the noise of the clicker terrifies them.

One of my dogs was like that - I pretty much decided not to even try with
him, since every time I clicked, he ran away and hid (even if I was in
another room!) So I kept doing it with Bodhi, and slowly, Dakota began to
desensitize to it. First, he didn't run but just looked glum; then, he'd
actually take a treat before moving a foot or so away and looking glum;
then, he started taking a couple of treats, and after that, he's just as
eager for a click/treat as Bodhi.
Keep it muffled, try working w/one dog at a time, and in very short
sessions. Don't try any actual training until you've got them used to the
clicker itself.
Good luck!
Christy
 
 
 

clicker training question

Post by Webfeet3 » Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Can't seem to get my two dogs used to the clicker, they still cring when it
clicks and look to me for help.  They are getting used to the toaster, cuckoo
clock, but still hate the noisy kitchen timer that dings and thunder, well, we
have to be in our crates where it is safe when that goes on.  Both are rescue
dogs so I have no idea why the noise of the clicker terrifies them.  Tried the
treat and click thing and  neither dog would come near me for a treat for
weeks. It took showing them my hand to prove I don't have a clicker just from
that one time I tried it.  Tried muffling it..no go.  Tried using it only
outdoors on walks...wouldn't walk. Someone else was using it in agility class
and my dog shut down.  Months have passed. Now, I have found a way to use the
clicker....just to get their attention when they are barking e***dly at
neighbors, dogs, kids.  I click, they are quiet and listen ..I praise good
quiet.  They bark, we do it again.  They are getting the message NOT to bark at
the neighborhood activites (we moved from an acre and half freedom to a small
city yard, big adjustment for dogs and for the neighbors) and what quiet means
(I hope)  I always have a clicker in my pocket, hand or tied in a tree for easy
reaching.  My question before I do this too much, too long, get a bad
habit...What am I doing???? LOL   The clicker seems to be like the chain thing
(dropping a chain to get their attention then praising their reaction). Where
can I go from here and continue with the clicker?  BTW, one dog is a mini
schnauzer 8 year old, the other a dal/pointer mix around 3 or 4.  Yes, I know,
schnauzers are barkers anyway, but this sure has quieted the neighborhood down
:) and my neighbors are happier I hope. Sure am trying to keep the peace,
train, and adjust to the city noises (west side of Chicago). TIA for your
understanding, kindness, and suggestions.

Marty

 
 
 

clicker training question

Post by Julia F N Altshul » Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:00:00


I have two suggestions for a dog who's spooked by the sound of the
clicker:  

1.  Use anything that they're not afraid of such a the flash of light
from a flash light, a snap of your fingers, the soft click of a
retractible pen, a tsk sound made with your tongue.

2.  (This worked with Cubbe.)  Toss the treat at your dogs after the click
so that they hear the click, run from it and then scramble for the
biscuit.  

It took Cubbe about 4 2-minute sessions of having the treats thrown to
her to be certain that the clicker was a good thing, but she wasn't quite
as skittish around noises as the way you describe your dogs.

--Lia

--

 
 
 

clicker training question

Post by Jerry How » Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Hello Marty,

The problem is that you are not praising immediately following the
click. You've been taught to click and treat. The TIME between the
click and the treat is what scaring him. He needs IMMEDIATE praise
upon hearing the click. The treat thing is a problem for me, because
I don't approve of it for several reasons. Meanwhile, when you click,
immediately praise for five to fif*** seconds, and if you're going
to use a treat, give it near the end of the praise...

To be brief, when you use a click and a TREAT, the treat distracts
the dog too far from the situation you are trying to teach him about,
and he no longer thinks of the behavior, only the treat. That means
the dog is no longer thinking about the behavior you just clicked.
Praise always works better for learning. Treats work better if
there's no thinking involved.

Praise goes to the heart and mind, treats go to the gut. Take your
pick. I've never bribed a dog to work for me.

I suggest you will find all the information you are looking for in
the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available for free at
http://www.moonsgarden.com/


Quote:
> Can't seem to get my two dogs used to the clicker, they still cring
when it
> clicks and look to me for help.  They are getting used to the
toaster, cuckoo
> clock, but still hate the noisy kitchen timer that dings and
thunder, well, we
> have to be in our crates where it is safe when that goes on.  Both
are rescue
> dogs so I have no idea why the noise of the clicker terrifies them.
Tried the
> treat and click thing and  neither dog would come near me for a
treat for
> weeks. It took showing them my hand to prove I don't have a clicker
just from
> that one time I tried it.  Tried muffling it..no go.  Tried using
it only
> outdoors on walks...wouldn't walk. Someone else was using it in
agility class
> and my dog shut down.  Months have passed. Now, I have found a way
to use the
> clicker....just to get their attention when they are barking
e***dly at
> neighbors, dogs, kids.  I click, they are quiet and listen ..I
praise good
> quiet.  They bark, we do it again.  They are getting the message
NOT to bark at
> the neighborhood activites (we moved from an acre and half freedom
to a small
> city yard, big adjustment for dogs and for the neighbors) and what
quiet means
> (I hope)  I always have a clicker in my pocket, hand or tied in a
tree for easy
> reaching.  My question before I do this too much, too long, get a
bad
> habit...What am I doing???? LOL   The clicker seems to be like the
chain thing
> (dropping a chain to get their attention then praising their
reaction). Where
> can I go from here and continue with the clicker?  BTW, one dog is
a mini
> schnauzer 8 year old, the other a dal/pointer mix around 3 or 4.
Yes, I know,
> schnauzers are barkers anyway, but this sure has quieted the
neighborhood down
> :) and my neighbors are happier I hope. Sure am trying to keep the
peace,
> train, and adjust to the city noises (west side of Chicago). TIA
for your
> understanding, kindness, and suggestions.

> Marty

 
 
 

clicker training question

Post by Marshall Derm » Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
(Webfeet304) writes:
>The clicker seems to be like the chain thing
>(dropping a chain to get their attention then praising their reaction). Where
>can I go from here and continue with the clicker?
>Marty

 Hi Marty,

 There is nothing special about the click sound other than it can be
 made rapidly, has a sharp onset and offset, and can be heard at some
 distance. Other sounds can be used like the click of a ballpoint pen,
 a "retro-flexive tongue click," or just saying "good."

 The key is that the sound should come before and be correlated with
 reinforcement. By "come before," I mean that there should be a short
 interval between the sound and the reinforcer. By "be correlated," I mean
 that the probability of reinforcement should be higher given that the sound
 has occurred than given the absence of the sound.

 If you want to use the clicker, however, here is what you can do.
 The dog probably can following some command like "sit," "come,"
 or "down." Issue the command and when the behavior occurs click
 and treat. Eventually, the click should lose its aversive properties.
 If this does not work then somehow reduce the magnitude of the click
 and keep on using it as described in the second and third sentences
 of this paragraph. Then gradually increase the magnitude of the click.

 You don't want the click to function as a distractor or as a signal
 for come. Rather it is a CONSEQUENCE of "appropriate" behavior that
 comes just before and is correlated with a reinforcer.

 Best wishes for success,

 Marshall

_____________________________________________________________

I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl,
Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Lynn
Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, Denna Pace, Marilyn
Rammell, John Richardson, Ludwig Smith, and Terri Willis.

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of

               http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight."--William Safire

 
 
 

clicker training question

Post by Julia F N Altshul » Mon, 19 Jun 2000 04:00:00


When I started clicker training Cubbe, she knew COME, SIT and DOWN and
was relatively reliable with them in the house with no distractions.  I
tried getting her to come and sit followed by a click and treat.  Cubbe
was so spooked by the clicker sound that she'd come and sit for half a
second before running off knowing that the noise was about to follow.  Or
she'd sit 5 feet in front of me when she'd previously run right up to me.
She didn't know where the click was coming from so she was running into
chairs to avoid it.  I was so disappointed that this terrific clicker
that was going to solve all my problems was turning into a bust right
from the start.  I posted to this list to ask what to do, and here is
where I learned to click and throw her the treat until she learned not to
be afraid of it.  

--Lia

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