Class I am instructing...advice

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Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Irma Knol » Mon, 01 Dec 1997 04:00:00



I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.  The majority of
the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.  I am
using treats and positive reinforcements but the labs arent much
intrested in thinking about the treats.  These dogs have not been given
enough outlet for their energy and no correct behavior teachings.
The owners have let these poor dogs grow up the last 8 months w/out any
guidance. I see these people w/the faithful sporting breeds and they
have no idea how to relate to them.  They have no clue that these dogs
need alot of things to do.  These people get these dogs that are made to
work in a field all day long and think they can be happy and quiet in a
house w/out any outlet.   I have never had to teach the jerk/release I
dont think they will do it correctly.  But I need a way to get thru to
the dogs w/out strong corrections.   I have worked mainly with
working and Terrier breeds the bossy and the sassy but this over zealous
love and energy is
leaving me seeking advice.  thanks..  irma

God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
Angels.

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Elaine Gallego » Mon, 01 Dec 1997 04:00:00


 If I were you, I'd quit that job immediately. The directors violated
their contract by signing up more students that you agreed to take per
class.
 You like Rotties and teaching, right? Start your own class where you can
pick and choose your students. Pick student owners and dogs that YOU want
to work with.
 You seem to be a knowledgable teacher with a lot of enthusiasm and
devotion. Don't let a foolish, greedy boss steal those wonderful things
from you.
 Many of the commercial obedience classes are total BS. The school sells
tickets to desperate owners searching for some magically way that they can
get their dogs settled down well enough that they can keep them. Frankly,
many of these matches are not meant to be.
 The teacher is the one who gets caught in the middle. The dogs are
impossible, the owners are impossible. The school pressures the teacher to
make sense of it, and satisfy the owners. These owners will never be
satisfied. The owners will complain to the school that the teacher is not
doing a good enough job. The school will yell at you to try harder. Do not
make the mistake of getting caught in the middle of a battle like this
that is impossible to win.
 More than your sanity and job lay in the balance. If the clients are not
happy, the school won't be happy with you. YOUR professional reputation
will get trashed. Everyone will look at this situation, and say that you
are a crappy teacher. No one will understand that it's not your fault.

: I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
: more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.  The majority of
: the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.  I am
: using treats and positive reinforcements but the labs arent much
: intrested in thinking about the treats.  These dogs have not been given
: enough outlet for their energy and no correct behavior teachings.
: The owners have let these poor dogs grow up the last 8 months w/out any
: guidance. I see these people w/the faithful sporting breeds and they
: have no idea how to relate to them.  They have no clue that these dogs
: need alot of things to do.  These people get these dogs that are made to
: work in a field all day long and think they can be happy and quiet in a
: house w/out any outlet.   I have never had to teach the jerk/release I
: dont think they will do it correctly.  But I need a way to get thru to
: the dogs w/out strong corrections.   I have worked mainly with
: working and Terrier breeds the bossy and the sassy but this over zealous
: love and energy is
: leaving me seeking advice.  thanks..  irma

: God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
: Angels.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elaine Gallegos

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by User1158 » Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:00:00


I have done classes at the Humane Society with dogs like the ones you describe
and two year old Irish Setters who have never been on a leash with tiny women.
These "adoptive parents" need fast results or will return their potentially
nice dogs to the shelter. Altho I don't use it myself or in the club classes I
teach, I use prong collars and "jerk release" with these people. No, they don't
use it perfectly or even well but they do use it and do practice. In five weeks
they have some control over their dogs and can do a sit, down and stay. They
know how to work on come and I do use my own method on come.
At the end of the five weeks if they want to contiue they have to seek out
training on their own, but at least their dog is under some control.
Have you asked the club if you can have an assistant for your class? Would
help.
Nancy

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Sandra Pov » Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:00:00




[snip good advice]

Quote:
> More than your sanity and job lay in the balance. If the clients are not
>happy, the school won't be happy with you. YOUR professional reputation
>will get trashed. Everyone will look at this situation, and say that you
>are a crappy teacher. No one will understand that it's not your fault.

Excellent advice, Elaine.  Irma, don't let them take this kind of
advantage of you.  

As a compromise, suggest that the later registrants, (ie the ones who
registered AFTER #10), may come to the class to observe (no
participation) if they like, and may enroll in a later class.

Six*** dogs sounds like a lot of dogs in one class.  Not much time
for individual attention.

Sandra,
Sandra
To email, do what it says

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by The Muzzle Changing ZenMaste » Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
> more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.  The majority of
> the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.  I am
> using treats and positive reinforcements but the labs arent much
> intrested in thinking about the treats.  These dogs have not been given
> enough outlet for their energy and no correct behavior teachings.
> The owners have let these poor dogs grow up the last 8 months w/out any
> guidance. I see these people w/the faithful sporting breeds and they
> have no idea how to relate to them.  They have no clue that these dogs
> need alot of things to do.  These people get these dogs that are made to
> work in a field all day long and think they can be happy and quiet in a
> house w/out any outlet.   I have never had to teach the jerk/release I
> dont think they will do it correctly.  But I need a way to get thru to
> the dogs w/out strong corrections.   I have worked mainly with
> working and Terrier breeds the bossy and the sassy but this over zealous
> love and energy is
> leaving me seeking advice.  thanks..  irma

> God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
> Angels.

So you are finding out how *wrong* the =morons= are who always go around
saying how easy Labs are to train (well, they are right in one sense,
because for me, virtually ALL dogs are easy to train).  The other thing
you are finding out is how difficult it is to train 16 dogs at once as
opposed to just your big ol' sweet Annie.

Don't have time to write a book here, but I will say this.  Break the
class down into groups of four and instruct the owners to call their
dogs individually by name while the other three are made to stay, and so
on, etc...., from there you should be able to move to having each owner
stand behind their dogs, and "release" each dog individually to go get a
big juicy treat that the other three must stay and watch him eat. I use
the dog's name interchangably with the word "OK" so you can release them
separately and let them know, OK, I'M TALKING TO YOU NOW, and JUST YOU,
not the six*** other dogs.  Also, the six*** other dogs understand
who's being released and they get to know each other's names as well.  

Name recognition is extremely important if you are going to be dealing
with more than one dog.  Especially six*** of them.  Also, I would have
a massive rompfest before class started to get the edge of all those
crazy dogs.  Let them go crazy before you start asking them to do
anything.  This is a hard concept for control freaks to understand.
Control Freaks can't stand seeing dogs being dogs.

Not saying you're a control freak Irma, in fact, I think I'm going to
have to make up a new category for people like you....people who use
corrections themselves, but tell everybody else not to use them, and
tell everybody else you don't need them.

The Hypocrites?  I think that's a little harsh for you Irma.
How about the (mis)Leaders of the New School?

What do you think about that Class,
Anybody? Anybody?

--The (ascendant) ZeNman

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Tony » Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
> more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.  The majority of
> the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.  I am
> using treats and positive reinforcements but the labs arent much
> intrested in thinking about the treats.  These dogs have not been given
> enough outlet for their energy and no correct behavior teachings.
> The owners have let these poor dogs grow up the last 8 months w/out any
> guidance. I see these people w/the faithful sporting breeds and they
> have no idea how to relate to them.  They have no clue that these dogs
> need alot of things to do.  These people get these dogs that are made to
> work in a field all day long and think they can be happy and quiet in a
> house w/out any outlet.   I have never had to teach the jerk/release I
> dont think they will do it correctly.  But I need a way to get thru to
> the dogs w/out strong corrections.   I have worked mainly with
> working and Terrier breeds the bossy and the sassy but this over zealous
> love and energy is
> leaving me seeking advice.  thanks..  irma

> God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
> Angels.

Teach the "jerk and say 'no'" This is very simple and the best training
tool ever invented. I have found this to work with all dogs. Do it and
make the owners learn it. It should onbly take a short while.

--
Give Bear a Home.....See Bear at

http://www.moonsgarden.com/
           or
http://www.moonsgarden.com/.***ia.edu/~rmm7e/bear.htm

Tony

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Irma Knol » Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:00:00


RE:  The class I am instructing and all the good advice and responses I
have rec'd.. I would like
to thank everyone I apprecate all the responses I have recd.. Again
thanks.. it helps..
irma

God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
Angels.

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Colin Leak » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
> more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.
[snip]
> The owners have let these poor dogs grow up the last 8 months w/out
any
> guidance. I see these people w/the faithful sporting breeds and they
> have no idea how to relate to them.  They have no clue that these dogs
> need alot of things to do.

[snip]

Irma,
since you say that the class is at your club, I'm guessing that your not
paid and that you're doing this as a devoted member (at least thats how
it works in my club). You're interested in the good name of your club
(and your own of course!) so you naturally want this class to succeed.
Don't despair!

16 dogs is too many, you MUST have an assistant.
Remember, it's those dogs and owners who NEED help that come to
training.
I start by giving a chat about what can happen when dogs are under
stimulated, chewing, straying, aggression etc.
I ask them to imagine how their children would be with only 1hour of
upbringing or school in a week.
I tell them that if they want to see improvements, then they must go
home and train for at least 10min twice daily otherwise they're waisting
THEIR MONEY. (If thinking about the dog doesn't do it, thinking about
their wallets will.)  :-)
Teach them to show their dog's teeth. For many, it's the first time
they've really noticed just how long and sharp they are. Make a few
comments about how important obedience is now for keeping those teeth
under control later.
At the start of each session, have each owner in turn show what was
covered last. You can bet they'll go home and train for next time!
At the end of each session, hold a little competion. eg. Who's dog is
quickest to sit? Owners walk with their dogs untill you say stop. Last
dog to sit is out, and so on. Owners will train like crazy to win next
time!

All these things are to try to give owners some incentive. When they're
training their dog regularly, they'll be giving their dog something to
do. Hopefully they'll be hooked and they won't stop when the class ends.
Good luck,

Colin Leake

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffi » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00


To start with beg for an assistant to help keep order - the registrar
certainly should be willing to volunteer <g>
Second instruct your students to NOT feed the dogs their meals before class
- this will focus them more on the food you are using as lures.
Thirdly request your students to exercise the dogs BEFORE class - a brisk
walk a game of ball whatever to take the edge off of the dogs so they can
be calm enough to learn.
Finally you *could* split the class into two groups of 8 who will each get
a 1/2 hour session with more attention from you for that 1/2 hour
good luck!
Nancy



Quote:
> I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
> more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.  The majority of
> the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.  I am
> using treats and positive reinforcements but the labs arent much
> intrested in thinking about the treats.  These dogs have not been given
> enough outlet for their energy and no correct behavior teachings.
> The owners have let these poor dogs grow up the last 8 months w/out any
> guidance. I see these people w/the faithful sporting breeds and they
> have no idea how to relate to them.  They have no clue that these dogs
> need alot of things to do.  These people get these dogs that are made to
> work in a field all day long and think they can be happy and quiet in a
> house w/out any outlet.   I have never had to teach the jerk/release I
> dont think they will do it correctly.  But I need a way to get thru to
> the dogs w/out strong corrections.   I have worked mainly with
> working and Terrier breeds the bossy and the sassy but this over zealous
> love and energy is
> leaving me seeking advice.  thanks..  irma

> God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
> Angels.

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Joyce Rober » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Nice post, Colin!  I worked very hard with my dog so I wouldn't look
foolish in class.  :-)

Joyce


Quote:
>Irma,
>since you say that the class is at your club, I'm guessing that your not
>paid and that you're doing this as a devoted member (at least thats how
>it works in my club). You're interested in the good name of your club
>(and your own of course!) so you naturally want this class to succeed.
>Don't despair!

>16 dogs is too many, you MUST have an assistant.
>Remember, it's those dogs and owners who NEED help that come to
>training.
>I start by giving a chat about what can happen when dogs are under
>stimulated, chewing, straying, aggression etc.
>I ask them to imagine how their children would be with only 1hour of
>upbringing or school in a week.
>I tell them that if they want to see improvements, then they must go
>home and train for at least 10min twice daily otherwise they're waisting
>THEIR MONEY. (If thinking about the dog doesn't do it, thinking about
>their wallets will.)  :-)
>Teach them to show their dog's teeth. For many, it's the first time
>they've really noticed just how long and sharp they are. Make a few
>comments about how important obedience is now for keeping those teeth
>under control later.
>At the start of each session, have each owner in turn show what was
>covered last. You can bet they'll go home and train for next time!
>At the end of each session, hold a little competion. eg. Who's dog is
>quickest to sit? Owners walk with their dogs untill you say stop. Last
>dog to sit is out, and so on. Owners will train like crazy to win next
>time!

>All these things are to try to give owners some incentive. When they're
>training their dog regularly, they'll be giving their dog something to
>do. Hopefully they'll be hooked and they won't stop when the class ends.
>Good luck,

>Colin Leake


 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Chris Kosmak » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00


: I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
: more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.  The majority of
: the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.  

1st, see if you can get an assistant.  Control of this class is going
to be very hard.  I would make sure you have 16 chairs available and
start each session with the handlers sitting on the leashes to settle
the dogs down while you review last week's lesson and ask if they had
problems or have questions about it.  If you've got any barkers, I'd
have spray bottles of water (Lavoris for hardcases) handy and make
the owners use them immediately.  You've GOT to have quiet in a class
this size.

The easy way out would be to do a whole bunch of demonstration, but
maybe the better thing to do would be to introduce a little competition
to incent them to work between classes.  Things like having every dog
wear a tab for control for a week, then giving some little reward for
the dog with the least chewed tab.  Maybe you could really emphasize
handler skills to make sure they feel they're learning something and
getting their money's worth.  Things like proper hand position on the
leash.

Good Luck,

Lynn K.

--

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by A1... » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00




Quote:
> I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
> more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16 dogs in it.

YeOW!

Quote:
> The majority of
> the dogs are sporting breeds.  The first night was very wild.

The first night of a group class is *always* very wild.  At our
club, we usually have an instructor and an assistant for 8 dogs.  On
the first night, we draft a third person to help get people checked
in - but the first night of class is always a zoo.  (It's one of my
favorite times, in fact.  I suspect I'm an anarchist at heart...)

Quote:
> I am
> using treats and positive reinforcements but the labs arent much
> intrested in thinking about the treats.

Don't forget that "positive reinforcements" are more than treats.
And that reinforcements are defined BY THE DOG.  For sporting
breeds, tennis balls, squeakies, and bird wings can be "more"
positive than a cookie.

Quote:
> These dogs have not been given
> enough outlet for their energy and no correct behavior teachings.

As ever, suggest strongly that these folks get their dogs out and
*zoomed* for a half-hour before class.  Then you might teach them
the "settle".  I find that a few minutes of "settle" really gets
their minds back on track (the dogs, too!).

Mary H.

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Joyce Rober » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Quote:
>Teach them to show their dog's teeth. For many, it's the first time
>they've really noticed just how long and sharp they are. Make a few
>comments about how important obedience is now for keeping those teeth
>under control later.

>Sporting dogs don't have teef.
>Love, Moonpie

If their sport is biting the mailman, they do. ;-)

Joyce

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by Chris Kosmak » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00


: I am currently teaching a class at my club.  It was suppose to have no
: more that 10 dogs but the registerer put 16

I just remembered that Job Michael Evan's book, "Training and Explaining"
is particularly good on controlling large beginning obed. classes.
You can probably get a copy before the next class from Direct Books or
4-M.  It is listed in the 4-M catalog for $24.95.  (800) 487-9867.
Direct Books might have a blurb on it at www.dogandcatbooks.com.

Lynn K.
--

 
 
 

Class I am instructing...advice

Post by WebbWea » Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

Quote:
>Sporting dogs don't have teef.
>Love, Moonpie

If their sport is biting the mailman, they do. ;-)

Ooooh! What kind of sport would that be?
Mailman is nice.
UPS man is nice.
Propane man is nice.
Hardware store man is nice.
Trash man is nice.
Love, Moonpie