Parvo Help - Please read

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Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Martin Kurows » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00



Hi,

My name is Martin and I have a 15 weeks old male puppy (rotweiler/chow
mix).  Earlier today he was tested for Parvo and the test came out
positive.  The estimate for treatment come to $500+ and I just do not
have that kind of money to spare.  I decided to keep the dog at home
and take care of him myself.  I realize that the chances for his
survival are small, but I am not willing to give up just yet.  The vet
told me that Zeus (my dog) has approx. 25% chance of survival.

If anyone reading this message has any information that would help my
puppy please contact me by e-mail.

Thanks for your time and help

Martin.


 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Grimac » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Yes, I have advise for you.  WHen this dog dies, which should be
> absolutely miserable and painful for the dog,  don't get another until you
> decide you will care for it properly.

> OR... set up a payment system with your vet.

> Saxon


> >Hi,

> >My name is Martin and I have a 15 weeks old male puppy (rotweiler/chow
> >mix).  Earlier today he was tested for Parvo and the test came out
> >positive.  The estimate for treatment come to $500+ and I just do not
> >have that kind of money to spare.  I decided to keep the dog at home
> >and take care of him myself.  I realize that the chances for his
> >survival are small, but I am not willing to give up just yet.  The vet
> >told me that Zeus (my dog) has approx. 25% chance of survival.

> >If anyone reading this message has any information that would help my
> >puppy please contact me by e-mail.

THAT was very helpful. The best thing to do is to keep the dog Hydrated
(usually with fluids i.e. ringers)
There are other things that are done but that seems to be the majority
of it. I have never understood why Vets charge so much for this
treatment. Maybe they are trying to remind you to get you dog vaccinated
or maybe because it is a disgusting ( and very contagious) disease they
don't like to fiddle with it.
 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Saxon Bro » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00


Yes, I have advise for you.  WHen this dog dies, which should be
absolutely miserable and painful for the dog,  don't get another until you
decide you will care for it properly.  

OR... set up a payment system with your vet.

Saxon

Quote:

>Hi,
>My name is Martin and I have a 15 weeks old male puppy (rotweiler/chow
>mix).  Earlier today he was tested for Parvo and the test came out
>positive.  The estimate for treatment come to $500+ and I just do not
>have that kind of money to spare.  I decided to keep the dog at home
>and take care of him myself.  I realize that the chances for his
>survival are small, but I am not willing to give up just yet.  The vet
>told me that Zeus (my dog) has approx. 25% chance of survival.
>If anyone reading this message has any information that would help my
>puppy please contact me by e-mail.
>Thanks for your time and help
>Martin.


--
*Saxon Brown                        *  Experience is a hard teacher-   *
*Department of EPO Biology          * The test comes before the lesson *
*University of Colorado at Boulder  *                                  *

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by hillary gorm » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00



*THAT was very helpful. The best thing to do is to keep the dog Hydrated
*(usually with fluids i.e. ringers)
*There are other things that are done but that seems to be the majority
*of it. I have never understood why Vets charge so much for this
*treatment. Maybe they are trying to remind you to get you dog vaccinated
*or maybe because it is a disgusting ( and very contagious) disease they
*don't like to fiddle with it.

Or, maybe because the animal is on IV fluids, and is VERY ill, in need of
constant monitoring. The intensive care required by these extremely sick
dogs costs a lot to provide.

 --


"So that's 2 T-1s and a newsfeed....would you like clues with that?"
Net Access...we got the clues, we got the funk, we got the bandwidth!

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Andromed » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00




Quote:
>Hi,

>My name is Martin and I have a 15 weeks old male puppy (rotweiler/chow
>mix).  Earlier today he was tested for Parvo and the test came out
>positive.  The estimate for treatment come to $500+ and I just do not
>have that kind of money to spare.  I decided to keep the dog at home
>and take care of him myself.  I realize that the chances for his
>survival are small, but I am not willing to give up just yet.  The vet
>told me that Zeus (my dog) has approx. 25% chance of survival.

>If anyone reading this message has any information that would help my
>puppy please contact me by e-mail.

I'm afraid this is not a fun job, neither is it quick unless the dog
dies. I worked in a London charity vet hospital and have nursed dozens
of unvaccinated dogs with parvo. Many survived, but that was mainly due
to the high level of experience of the nurses and vets at the hospital,
and due to the intensive round-the-clock nursing care. Parvos were kept
in a special isolation ward, with one nurse on duty for that ward alone
(they did nothing else) at all times.

He is unlikely to be able to eat or drink for some time, so you will
need to be prepared for this.

You will need to see your vet to discuss the therapy you want to do, and
to get the supplies you will need. The following is one of the common
routines for parvo, but there are others and only your vet will know
which is best as he has seen the dog and we haven't.

It's likely to require 24-hour-a-day fluid therapy for some time. This
will require you to monitor and nurse it constantly, as drips cannot
safely be left to themselves overnight.

The nursing of parvo is very important, because the treatment is so
intensive. It is also essential for the dog's well-being, as parvo is a
very messy and unpleasant disease. You may find that you are cleaning up
after your pup every few minutes if he gets really bad. Don't forget to
clean him very carefully, and make sure he is properly dry after you do
so.

The pup will probably need anti-emetic injections to control vomiting.
It may also be helpful to provide prophylactic antibiotic therapy.
Painkilling injections can be helpful to deal with the abdominal
distress.

If you can get him to the point where the vomiting has completely
stopped and the diarrhoea is well under control, ie. he is clearly
recovering, you can try starting him on warm ***rehydration fluids, a
tablespoonful every hour or so to start with and building up over the
next few days to point where he can have free access to it. If he won't
drink, you may need to syringe the fluids into his mouth. If he vomits,
stop the ***fluids and start over.

If he doesn't vomit after a day or two on ***fluids, you can start
introducing solids. Mashed up boiled white fish, porridge, rice or
scrambled eggs can be good. Mix them with a little water to make them
mushy. Give a tablespoon to him and watch him carefully, build it up
until he is able to eat a proper helping over the next few days, just as
you did with the ***fluids. If he vomits, stop feeding and start over.

If this has worked, mix a very small amount of his regular food with the
light diet. If he does not vomit, you can add a little more to his next
meal and so on until he is back on his regular food.

Good luck and if you succeed, get him vaccinated.

- ANDREA

--
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^




*       ~       *       ~       *       ~       *       ~       *
***axe's History Links:   http://www.moonsgarden.com/
The Loony Bin Archive:     http://www.moonsgarden.com/~pjw/loonies/

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Martin Kurows » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>>Hi,

>>My name is Martin and I have a 15 weeks old male puppy (rotweiler/chow
>>mix).  Earlier today he was tested for Parvo and the test came out
>>positive.  The estimate for treatment come to $500+ and I just do not
>>have that kind of money to spare.  I decided to keep the dog at home
>>and take care of him myself.  I realize that the chances for his
>>survival are small, but I am not willing to give up just yet.  The vet
>>told me that Zeus (my dog) has approx. 25% chance of survival.

>>If anyone reading this message has any information that would help my
>>puppy please contact me by e-mail.

>>Thanks for your time and help

>>Martin.


>--
>*Saxon Brown                        *  Experience is a hard teacher-   *
>*Department of EPO Biology          * The test comes before the lesson *
>*University of Colorado at Boulder  *                                  *




Quote:
>Yes, I have advise for you.  WHen this dog dies, which should be
>absolutely miserable and painful for the dog,  don't get another until you
>decide you will care for it properly.  

>OR... set up a payment system with your vet.

>Saxon

I don't know who I feel more sorry for, my sick dog or ***s like
you.  

I have not decided not to care for my dog.
It is just financially impossible to provide him the treatment he
needs.  I am working closely with my vet and a lot of people in this
group have offered me helpful information.  The dog has been sick for
2 1/2 days, he's still alive and his condition does not seem to be
getting worse.  I know the adds and the chances are that he will die,
but everyone involved is doing their best to prevent that.

I adopted this dog from a local animal shelter, hoping to provide him
with a good home and a happy life.  I take good care of him and do my
best to keep him out of harms way.  I was not financially ready for
Parvo and I am very sorry to see my dog in this condition.  If I had
the money in hand he would be getting the best treatment possibe, but
that's another story.

Next time someone posts a message asking for help, just keep quiet if
you have nothing helpful to offer.  Smart-ass remarks, at times like
this, are not appreciated.

                                        Martin Kurowski

Ps.  If I insulted you in any way - I am not sorry - you deserve it!

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by MW Gunna » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
> >--



> >Yes, I have advise for you.  WHen this dog dies, which should be
> >absolutely miserable and painful for the dog,  don't get another until you
> >decide you will care for it properly.

> >OR... set up a payment system with your vet.

> >Saxon

Saxon,

This is mean spirited and absolutely uncalled for. Martin is asking for
help and what do you offer? What did you contribute? Do you think a
response like this reflects well on the University of Colorado or your
profession? Science without compassion is not science at all...it is an
empty lab of test tubes and clones.

I'm sure all of us out here feel you owe Martin an appology and hope you
are man enough to see this.

Please, consider your responses in the future before kicking a man who's
down. Some people seeking help out here in this NG might think twice
about getting involved for fear of responses like yours. If you're not
part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

MWG, DVM (temporarily embarassed to be part of the field of science)

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Elizabeth B. Nai » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Hi,

> My name is Martin and I have a 15 weeks old male puppy (rotweiler/chow
> mix).  Earlier today he was tested for Parvo and the test came out
> positive.  The estimate for treatment come to $500+ and I just do not
> have that kind of money to spare.  I decided to keep the dog at home
> and take care of him myself.  I realize that the chances for his
> survival are small, but I am not willing to give up just yet.  The vet
> told me that Zeus (my dog) has approx. 25% chance of survival.

Continue to work with your vet.  It is possible in some cases to trade
time for money -- if you can provide a LOT of nursing care, which
means learning some things and spending a lot of time at it, your dog
has a better than 25% chance.  Discuss nursing with your vet, and have
him teach you how to give injections.  Discuss IV treatment, can the
vet do this only when the need arises (saving several days
hospitalization)?  Maintaining and IV is too much for most people to
do on their own.  Can dogs take subcutaneous fluids?  This is often
done with cats, and it can be done on an outpatient basis.  If it is
parvo you will probably need a way to give the dog fluids without its
having to drink them (the gut will be out of order at the worst of the
disease), hence all this needle talk.  Most people can learn to give
subcutaneous or intramuscular shots, could the vet teach you and send
you home with injectable *** to help control the vomiting and
antibiotics to ward off secondary infections.

The vet has the setup and experience to do this better than many
owners, which is why his treatment plan is better if you can possibly
afford it.  But, with diligence and lots of effort and good medical
advice and backup, you have a fighting chance.  How much can you
afford?  Talk to your vet again and if it's enough to buy the
medications, have outpatient treatment, and get you some training,
you'll have a chance.  It's not a certain thing if you go through the
hospitalization either.

And, if you continue to work closely with your vet, you should also
discuss the possibilities of the disease, to plan ahead for the
possible decision to euthanize.  What symptoms indicate that chances
for recovery are almost nil, and so forth.  Sad but necessary to plan
ahead, it is never easy to make the decision and knowing what to
expect does help.

Best of luck.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth B. Naime            *   Email may be forwarded and/or posted

CUR 70 / FUR 212              *       * Standard Disclaimers Apply*
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by Saxon Bro » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>> >OR... set up a payment system with your vet.

>> >Saxon
>Saxon,
>This is mean spirited and absolutely uncalled for. Martin is asking for
>help and what do you offer? What did you contribute? Do you think a
>response like this reflects well on the University of Colorado or your
>profession? Science without compassion is not science at all...it is an
>empty lab of test tubes and clones.
>I'm sure all of us out here feel you owe Martin an appology and hope you
>are man enough to see this.
>Please, consider your responses in the future before kicking a man who's
>down. Some people seeking help out here in this NG might think twice
>about getting involved for fear of responses like yours. If you're not
>part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
>MWG, DVM (temporarily embarassed to be part of the field of science)

  While I agree that my post was harsh, and will apologize for that, I
cannot tell you how many posts I have seen here from people who are
willing to assume the responsibility of a dog as long as it is cheap and
easy.  While Martin is willing to care for the dog, it's chances of
survival are considerably less when proper care is not provided.  

  I also, by the way, recommended setting up a payment system with a vet,
or did you miss that part.  I included it just to be sure.

  I applaude Martin for getting a shelter dog, I am sorry, however that
more people do not plan for emergencies with thier pets.  Puppies are
expensive, and it is difficult to encourage someone to not treat thier pet
when it has an awful disease.  Frankly, it makes me mad as hell.If your
child was ill, would you withold treatment?  Unheard of!  Child abuse!  I
don't see the difference.

   You question my compassion- what about for the dog?  shall we only
worry about Martin's financial inconvenience, or should we encourage him,
in any way possible, to get that pup to the vet!  I find it horribly
abusive to not do so.   Martin's hurt feelings, at the moment, were the
least of my concerns.

 Before you jump to further conclusions and think that I am just rolling
in dough, and have money to burn on my dog, it's not so, but I saved up to
get her- not just the purchase, but for medical problems as well.  No dog
deserves to suffer like his dog will, vet treatment or not, but keeping it
out of the vet is certainly not going to help matters for the dog, is
it?

Saxon

--
*Saxon Brown                        *  Experience is a hard teacher-   *
*Department of EPO Biology          * The test comes before the lesson *
*University of Colorado at Boulder  *                                  *

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by lfandj » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> >> >OR... set up a payment system with your vet.

> >> >Saxon

> >Saxon,

> >This is mean spirited and absolutely uncalled for. Martin is asking for
> >help and what do you offer? What did you contribute? Do you think a
> >response like this reflects well on the University of Colorado or your
> >profession? Science without compassion is not science at all...it is an
> >empty lab of test tubes and clones.

> >I'm sure all of us out here feel you owe Martin an appology and hope you
> >are man enough to see this.

> >Please, consider your responses in the future before kicking a man who's
> >down. Some people seeking help out here in this NG might think twice
> >about getting involved for fear of responses like yours. If you're not
> >part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

> >MWG, DVM (temporarily embarassed to be part of the field of science)

>   While I agree that my post was harsh, and will apologize for that, I
> cannot tell you how many posts I have seen here from people who are
> willing to assume the responsibility of a dog as long as it is cheap and
> easy.  While Martin is willing to care for the dog, it's chances of
> survival are considerably less when proper care is not provided.

>   I also, by the way, recommended setting up a payment system with a vet,
> or did you miss that part.  I included it just to be sure.

>   I applaude Martin for getting a shelter dog, I am sorry, however that
> more people do not plan for emergencies with thier pets.  Puppies are
> expensive, and it is difficult to encourage someone to not treat thier pet
> when it has an awful disease.  Frankly, it makes me mad as hell.If your
> child was ill, would you withold treatment?  Unheard of!  Child abuse!  I
> don't see the difference.

>    You question my compassion- what about for the dog?  shall we only
> worry about Martin's financial inconvenience, or should we encourage him,
> in any way possible, to get that pup to the vet!  I find it horribly
> abusive to not do so.   Martin's hurt feelings, at the moment, were the
> least of my concerns.

>  Before you jump to further conclusions and think that I am just rolling
> in dough, and have money to burn on my dog, it's not so, but I saved up to
> get her- not just the purchase, but for medical problems as well.  No dog
> deserves to suffer like his dog will, vet treatment or not, but keeping it
> out of the vet is certainly not going to help matters for the dog, is
> it?

> Saxon

> --
> *Saxon Brown                        *  Experience is a hard teacher-   *
> *Department of EPO Biology          * The test comes before the lesson *
> *University of Colorado at Boulder  *                                  *


Thank you, Dr. Gunnar, for your compassionate response and appropriate
reprimand.  I must say, however, that my gut instinct when reading the
original post was not unlike that of Saxon Brown.  I know that Martin is
doing all he can for his pup, but my heart cries out for him to find
some way to access the funds to get the pup the necessary veterinary
care.  I am fortunate in that I could access the funds if such a
calamity were to befall one of my animals, but I realize that many
people are simply not that fortunate.  And I'm not sure I know anyone
who actually has the forethought or patience to put off bringing a four
legged member into the family until they have put away many hundreds of
dollars into an emergency veterinary fund for that animal.  If only we
could all be as perfect as we'd like ...

And to Saxon Brown ... surely you must know that in economically
depressed areas many ailing children go without necessary medical care.
It is not intentional child abuse ... it is deadly economics.

Once again my thanks, Dr. Gunnar, for your continued willingness to
answer the veterinary concerns of people in this ng.

Martin, I hope your pup pulls through and know you will do everything in
your power toward that happy end.

LF

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by MW Gunna » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


This has now gone places I wish not to tred.

You all take care now and remember, do the best you can for your pets.
Sometimes nursing through illness is better than the alternative and
sometimes the road is just too difficult (for you and your friends) but
always...always keep in mind who is depending on you to make the best
decision. It's never easy but sometimes the rewards are well worth the
effort.

Wishing you all the best with you and yours, I remain,

MWG, DVM

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by All of us. » Fri, 16 May 1997 04:00:00




Quote:
>THAT was very helpful. The best thing to do is to keep the dog Hydrated
>(usually with fluids i.e. ringers)
>There are other things that are done but that seems to be the majority
>of it. I have never understood why Vets charge so much for this
>treatment. Maybe they are trying to remind you to get you dog vaccinated
>or maybe because it is a disgusting ( and very contagious) disease they
>don't like to fiddle with it.

Oh please the vets charge lots to make you vaccinate what a joke.
The vets charge lots becuase it costs lots to treat a seriously ill
patient.
Dont like to fiddle with it???? How ridiculous the costs come from
having to maintain an isolation area so the parvo dogs can be kept
away from the other patients. Fluid therapy costs a lot too.  Constant
monitoring of a critically ill patient also costs a lot.  Do you think
nurses monitor things outside of normal hours for nothing?
Having a parvo pup in hospital costs the vet a lot of money thats why
they charge the owner a lot of money nothing more.
Kim
 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by OBV » Fri, 16 May 1997 04:00:00



says...

Quote:
> I know that Martin is
>doing all he can for his pup, but my heart cries out for him to find
>some way to access the funds to get the pup the necessary veterinary
>care.

I sure hope that Martin's computer is a necessary for his job/income.  
If not, maybe his veterinarian would take it on trade.  It is likely
that a computer with a modem may be enough to cover the treatment for
Parvo.  Barter is a very popular method of payment when cash is not
readily available.

Dr. Drake  
--
Ocean Beach Veterinary Hospital
http://www.cport.com/~obvc/

|
PLEASE NOTE: In the absence of a traditional veterinarian-client-patient
relationship, this information should be taken as a friendly opinion,
not
as an official clinical recommendation.
Commercial/bulk/solicitation email unwelcome.

 
 
 

Parvo Help - Please read

Post by All of us. » Sat, 17 May 1997 04:00:00




Quote:



>> >THAT was very helpful. The best thing to do is to keep the dog Hydrated
>> >(usually with fluids i.e. ringers)
>> >There are other things that are done but that seems to be the majority
>> >of it. I have never understood why Vets charge so much for this
>> >treatment. Maybe they are trying to remind you to get you dog vaccinated
>> >or maybe because it is a disgusting ( and very contagious) disease they
>> >don't like to fiddle with it.

>> Oh please the vets charge lots to make you vaccinate what a joke.
>> The vets charge lots becuase it costs lots to treat a seriously ill
>> patient.
>> Dont like to fiddle with it???? How ridiculous the costs come from
>> having to maintain an isolation area so the parvo dogs can be kept
>> away from the other patients. Fluid therapy costs a lot too.  Constant
>> monitoring of a critically ill patient also costs a lot.  Do you think
>> nurses monitor things outside of normal hours for nothing?
>> Having a parvo pup in hospital costs the vet a lot of money thats why
>> they charge the owner a lot of money nothing more.
>> Kim
>I am the part owner of a veterinary hospital (wife's a vet) I know how
>much the fluid and lines cost. ( not much) also, the doctor (at least at
>our hospital and i would assume most, doesn't monitor all the time. They
>get the tech to check in.) I do think that it is possible legitimate to
>charge more if will get some to take the precaution of vaccinating. I
>also understand the extra cost of isolation (separate air etc.) but the
>reason that has been given to some of our clients by other vets is that
>they do not think the risk, time and money are worth it and would rather
>not take care of them. ( some doctors send them home regardles of
>ability to pay).

>--
>D? ?

Well yes i Agree fluid and fluid lines arnt very expensive but what
about the time to put in an Iv catheter and the constant monitoring IV
fluids require?????? Theres a lot more to monitoring a patient on
dluids then the cost of the equipment.  Do you work in the hospital or
just see the costs of the materials used??
I cant believe a vet would say they would rather not deal with such
things as parvo.  I guess I cant comment on America but certainly in
Austrlalia a vet would say no such thing, Vets are here to care for
sick animals and Parvo = a very sick animal needing intensive care.

I am totally horrified at the thought of a vet not treating a very ill
animal with Parvo and I seriously cant believe that a vet would turn a
parvo dog away becuase they dont want to deal with it Does your
hospital do this??
I am also equally amazed that you say vets charge more to deal with it
so people will vaccinate.  That is also definatly not the case in
Australia we charge for the services nothing more there is no option
in the billing for charge x amount extra cause the dog has parvo.

I sincerely hope your hospital does not do this and if it does then it
is not representative of other animla hospitals in the States as I
assumed most were quite highly regarded.
Kim