Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

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Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Ace Hold » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00




Quote:
>>American Pit Bull Terriers are not an AKC recognized breed and therefore
>>cannot be registered with thm.

>Well partially true........although the AKC doen's recognize APBTs as a breed
>you can have an American Staffordshire Terrier registered with the AKC that is
>also registered with the UKC as an American Pit Bull Terrier.

Finally someone has admitted it! The so-called American Staffordshire
Terrier is THE SAME DOG as the Pit Bull.

Why keep pretending they're not?

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Kieron Dodd » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Because any breeder of *real* APBTs would be having apoplectic fits.
AmStaffs and APBTs are *not* the same dogs, even if they're allowed to be
considered so.  The truely game APBT can encompass a wide range of sizes and
body type that "show" dogs can't.  Yeah, they're very close (the AmStaff
being developed from the APBT), especially when you look at the "show"
versions of the APBT, but, where it really counts, they're bred for
different purposes.  Further deviation is bound to occur as years pass as
well.

Quote:


>>>American Pit Bull Terriers are not an AKC recognized breed and therefore
>>>cannot be registered with thm.

>>Well partially true........although the AKC doen's recognize APBTs as a
breed
>>you can have an American Staffordshire Terrier registered with the AKC
that is
>>also registered with the UKC as an American Pit Bull Terrier.

>Finally someone has admitted it! The so-called American Staffordshire
>Terrier is THE SAME DOG as the Pit Bull.

>Why keep pretending they're not?

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Ace Hold » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>> >Well partially true........although the AKC doen's recognize APBTs as a
>breed you can have an American Staffordshire Terrier registered with the AKC that
>is also registered with the UKC as an American Pit Bull Terrier.

>> Finally someone has admitted it! The so-called American Staffordshire
>> Terrier is THE SAME DOG as the Pit Bull.

>> Why keep pretending they're not?

>Whats your point?  Breed standards across various continents are crystal
>clear, right?

The point is that pit bull enthusiasts vehemently deny that the two
breeds are one and the same. That way, when the pit bull bans are
enacted in this country (it's coming), they can claim that their dogs
aren't pits, they're "Staffies". This is dishonest and misleading.
 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by sean cavanau » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>The point is that pit bull enthusiasts vehemently deny that the two
>breeds are one and the same. That way, when the pit bull bans are
>enacted in this country (it's coming), they can claim that their dogs
>aren't pits, they're "Staffies". This is dishonest and misleading.

AARRGGHH! My pet peeve!  Amstaffs and PitBulls are not Staffies.
Staffies are Staffies. That name is taken! AAAAhhhhh! In Santa
Barabara, CA the Pit Bull restrictions apply to Pits, Amstaffs, and
Staffies! Staffies? Show me one statistic, one shred of evidence that
Staffies (the Nanny Dog) should be outlawed for any reason!
Two more things:
1. My screaming above is frustration aimed at the World in general,
not the post by Ace Holder, which brought up some good points.
2. My loyalty to my favorite breed (the Staffy), is not meant to
condone this crazy bit-bull bashing fad. I think Pits are great dogs
and I will vote against any breed specific legislation every time.

Sean Cavanaugh

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by sean cavanau » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Sorry... I said Santa Barbara, and I meant Santa Monica. See the
following link for the exact wording of the law:
http://pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us/city/municode/art04/4.04/4.04.410.html

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by pitbul » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


they are not the same breed! the am. staff has more of a docile temperment
compared to an american pit! the gameness of the pit is more than that of
the staf  , the staf is the temperment that the AKC wants and enjoys an
animal that can get along with just  about any other animal!!

Quote:


>>>American Pit Bull Terriers are not an AKC recognized breed and therefore
>>>cannot be registered with thm.

>>Well partially true........although the AKC doen's recognize APBTs as a
breed
>>you can have an American Staffordshire Terrier registered with the AKC
that is
>>also registered with the UKC as an American Pit Bull Terrier.

>Finally someone has admitted it! The so-called American Staffordshire
>Terrier is THE SAME DOG as the Pit Bull.

>Why keep pretending they're not?

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Ann Lett » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Sean, there are not many statistics to factually prove that either the
APBT or AmStaff should be ban either. More often then not
misidentification comes into play. Usually any long haired brown dog is
called a GSD, although in most cases it may well be a mixed breed. I
personally know of a SBT who was disqualified from the ring many years
ago for growling at the judge, a man who knew a growl when he heard one.
There have been a few SBT's here and there who have not had the typical
Stafford temperament. To fight BSL by trying to exclude one bully breed
from the rest by thinking it is above reproach is not the way to go and
certainly doesnt help the situation. The bottom line is BSL is harmful
to all breeds and is usually the result of irresponsible owners of all
breeds. As the owner of both the AmStaff and Stafford should I only be
concerned with laws which pertain to the "Nanny Dog"? How about the
AmStaff which in is also called the "All American Breed"? Let's not
forget the APBT used in WWI posters to represent our country. BSL
effects all the bully breeds and its just as unfair to ban one bully
breed as it is another.

ANN - SI, NY, USA

http://www.nvision.on.ca/legislation/annlettis.html

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by sean cavanau » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>To fight BSL by trying to exclude one bully breed
>from the rest by thinking it is above reproach is not the way to go and
>certainly doesnt help the situation. The bottom line is BSL is harmful
>to all breeds and is usually the result of irresponsible owners of all
>breeds.

Ann,
Wait a minute here.... I have made it a point in several of my posts
to specifically state that my defense of the Staffy is NOT an attack
of Pits. I think you might be preaching to the choir on that one. I
fully believe that BSL of any type is a poor idea. Even so, when a law
tries to ban one breed, it is a bad law. When a law tries to ban one
breed and accidently bans several, it is even worse. If I sounded
anti-pit in my last post, then the Pit Bull owners of this group have
my apology. I have had several e-mail conversations on this very topic
with members of this group and we all agree that unity is important. I
object to the wording of the Santa Monica law because it equates
Pit=Amstaff=Staffy which is silly. Additionally (sorry Ann if I didn't
make this clear before) I object to the entire law because breed
specific banning is an awful idea that punishes innocent animals for
having the "wrong" genetic make-up. I can't see the difference between
that and racism.
 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by st.. » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Baning certain dogs in America?  It's issues like this that make me glad to be
>a Canadian.  Doesn't your constitution guarantee you the right to bare arms?
>Own as many firearms as you wish but you can't own a certain dog.

>That is lunacy.

First: No Federal breed specific legislation has ever been proposed in
the United States.

Secondly: Let's talk about Canada? What's your tax on any tobacco
product? How about a bottle of wine? What are your gun laws like?
What's your hotel tax?

You are at Socialism's door. You will ban pit bulls long before we, as
a nation will. The UK will dictate what you must do as you curtsey
before them.

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Andrea Ston » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


<snip>

Quote:
> There are other ways to deal with people who breed vicious animals rather
than
> an outright ban.  If you wish to dispute this, I will remind you of your
gun
> laws.

> Rick

Well, they wanted to ban guns for a while too.

But the NRA is a powerful lobbyist group with Charlton Heston and other
celebs at the forefront.

Maybe a NBBA (National Bull Breed Association) is in order? (slight joke)
Maybe there is one?

You're right though - bans are not the answer. I don't think that it's fair
to equate a dog to a gun, but the idea is the same if we're supposing *just
for the sake of argument* that they are.

Of course, I've been feeling like the USA has had a somewhat anti-dog
attitude in general as of late, with the Bull breeds as its main focus.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but..
--
-Andrea Stone

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Kieron Dodd » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


No, it's not, the show versions of the AmStaff and APBT are *not*, most
often, game-bred (read: TRUE) American Pit Bull Terriers.  From what I've
seen, the true APBTs wind up in pounds only when dog-fighters are arrested
and they've been confiscated, the poor dogs blamed for all of the "pit bull"
attacks, always tend toward the show variety standards.  The AKC, FYI, does
*not* recognize the APBT as an AmStaff.

Quote:


>>> >Well partially true........although the AKC doen's recognize APBTs as a
>>breed you can have an American Staffordshire Terrier registered with the
AKC that
>>is also registered with the UKC as an American Pit Bull Terrier.

>>> Finally someone has admitted it! The so-called American Staffordshire
>>> Terrier is THE SAME DOG as the Pit Bull.

>>> Why keep pretending they're not?

>>Whats your point?  Breed standards across various continents are crystal
>>clear, right?

>The point is that pit bull enthusiasts vehemently deny that the two
>breeds are one and the same. That way, when the pit bull bans are
>enacted in this country (it's coming), they can claim that their dogs
>aren't pits, they're "Staffies". This is dishonest and misleading.

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Kieron Dodd » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Hehe... never mind the banning of *languages*.


Quote:
>>>Baning certain dogs in America?  It's issues like this that make me glad
to
>>be
>>>a Canadian.

> Newsflash.... the APBT * is*  banned is a Canadian province or two.

>Wendy Browne
>Urban Legend American Pit Bull Terriers
>*** APBT National Rescue Referral and Breed Info Network***
>http://members.aol.com/iluvpits/rescue.html
>*Power to the Pit Bull!*
>http://members.aol.com/iluvpits/links.html

 
 
 

Am staff = Pit bull, same dog

Post by Kieron Dodd » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

><snip>
>> There are other ways to deal with people who breed vicious animals rather
>than
>> an outright ban.  If you wish to dispute this, I will remind you of your
>gun
>> laws.

>> Rick

>Well, they wanted to ban guns for a while too.

>But the NRA is a powerful lobbyist group with Charlton Heston and other
>celebs at the forefront.

>Maybe a NBBA (National Bull Breed Association) is in order? (slight joke)
>Maybe there is one?

That's actually not a bad idea, but you might want to make it the NDOA,
National Dog Owners' Association, that way they could deal with any and all
dog related legislation.  Hmm... I'ld join.

Quote:
>You're right though - bans are not the answer. I don't think that it's fair
>to equate a dog to a gun, but the idea is the same if we're supposing *just
>for the sake of argument* that they are.

>Of course, I've been feeling like the USA has had a somewhat anti-dog
>attitude in general as of late, with the Bull breeds as its main focus.
>Maybe I'm paranoid, but..

I think it tends to phase in and out.  Americans are getting as flighty as
Europeans on holiday when it comes to dogs.  (It's not uncommon, especially
in the Caribbean, for Europeans to get a "vacation puppy" for their children
and abandon it when they go home.  This is from first hand experience.  My
wife and I even met an American couple who took one of these poor abandoned
animals (might have been a Bichon or Coton, didn't get a close enough look)
home to the states with them.  They got through customs fine too.  I didn't
think they would.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>--
>-Andrea Stone