HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Description of your first forum.

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by Sam » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 08:27:02



Need group opinion and possible advice. My 5yo lab has environmental
allergies and getting cortisone shots to control the itching.
Recently (30days) the Vet recommended I change to Prednisone
administered orally as an alternative that would allow me to better
control the itching. Initially the Prednisone seemed to work. With
the exception of the constant urination, the itching seemed to stop.
Then he started losing his hair first on his belly and hindlegs and
now under his throat. The vet seems out of ideas and I am concerned I
will be left with a completely hairless lab. Also want to get away
from the "chemical" solution and affect on his body longterm. Are
there any recommendations or ideas? Please .....

Thanks much in advance

Sam

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by Char » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 09:33:05



Quote:
> Need group opinion and possible advice. My 5yo lab has environmental
> allergies and getting cortisone shots to control the itching.
> Recently (30days) the Vet recommended I change to Prednisone
> administered orally as an alternative that would allow me to better
> control the itching. Initially the Prednisone seemed to work. With
> the exception of the constant urination, the itching seemed to stop.
> Then he started losing his hair first on his belly and hindlegs and
> now under his throat. The vet seems out of ideas and I am concerned I
> will be left with a completely hairless lab. Also want to get away
> from the "chemical" solution and affect on his body longterm. Are
> there any recommendations or ideas? Please .....

> Thanks much in advance

> Sam

Yeah, what you need to be doing is figuring out what makes him itch
instead of just hiding the problem with dangerous *** like Prednisone.
Your vet is taking the easy way out instead of doing his homework.

The most common reason for this itching is a allergy to something in
their food. Grains are the most common cause but it could be a lot of
things. First suggestion is to go grain free but there is information
that needs to be mentioned here.

I's need to know several things. What exactly (brand and type) you are
feeding him, what *** and pesticides are you exposing him to and tell
me about his vaccine history.

And get him off the Prednisone but don't stop abruptly. Slowly reduce
the dose till he's off it.

Char

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by sighthounds & siberian » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:29:27



Quote:
>Need group opinion and possible advice. My 5yo lab has environmental
>allergies and getting cortisone shots to control the itching.
>Recently (30days) the Vet recommended I change to Prednisone
>administered orally as an alternative that would allow me to better
>control the itching. Initially the Prednisone seemed to work. With
>the exception of the constant urination, the itching seemed to stop.
>Then he started losing his hair first on his belly and hindlegs and
>now under his throat. The vet seems out of ideas and I am concerned I
>will be left with a completely hairless lab. Also want to get away
>from the "chemical" solution and affect on his body longterm. Are
>there any recommendations or ideas? Please .....

Can you tell us what else you've tried besides the prednisone?  Any
antihistamines?  Are you quite sure that his allergies are
environmental?  

Everything I've read always says that dogs do not tolerate prednisone
well long-term.  It would definitely be wise to try to get him off
that.

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by cshen » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 12:56:35


"Sam" wrote

Quote:
> Need group opinion and possible advice. My 5yo lab has environmental
> allergies and getting cortisone shots to control the itching.

That wouldnt be my first try but I dont see enough here to tell for sure.

Sam, can you list what you are feeding him by brand and include any treats?

Allergy seems obvious but it *may* be a food allergy.  It's pretty classic
symptoms.

The top allergins in foods for dogs are: wheat, corn, soy.  Many of the
seeming good foods by brand name (and often price) are using those as 2 or
more of the top 4 ingredients (listed in order of percentage in the USA).
Since most dogs aren't allergic to such, they can get away with saying
'Pedigree' brand for example is good kibble.

Char will tel you about 'raw feeding' and she's good people but a bit
stronger than some can take about that one aspect at first.  Lets say even
if i can't follow her full plan and disagree with some aspects, she helped
me figure out a food allergy with my dog.

In my case, I couldn't raw feed totally (irrelevant why to you) but
converted to a food that doesnt cause issues for my 'pups' (only 1 of which
seems to have food allergin issues).

To help you best, we would ask the food brand and type you feed now
including treats used?

I can offer up too that I had to convert Cash to 'Blue Wilderness' (a grain
free product and there are others that can be used) and grain free treats.
I also give about 50% of his food in 'raw feed style' with livers, hearts,
fish, and his all time favorite of pig ***.

I still do not know exactly what of the top 3 pet food added allergins Cash
reacts to, but it doesnt matter much.  I just removed all 3 and it works
here with no need for expensive tests and Vet agrees on that.

My suggestion if you have a food with wheat, corn, or soy, to try one for 3
weeks with none of that. *If* it is related, they say some really long time
to have effect on some web pages but in personal experience, it was less
than a week to see 'something got better'.

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by Char » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 19:45:08



Quote:
> "Sam" wrote

>> Need group opinion and possible advice. My 5yo lab has environmental
>> allergies and getting cortisone shots to control the itching.

> That wouldnt be my first try but I dont see enough here to tell for sure.

> Sam, can you list what you are feeding him by brand and include any treats?

> Allergy seems obvious but it *may* be a food allergy. It's pretty
> classic symptoms.

> The top allergins in foods for dogs are: wheat, corn, soy. Many of the
> seeming good foods by brand name (and often price) are using those as 2
> or more of the top 4 ingredients (listed in order of percentage in the
> USA). Since most dogs aren't allergic to such, they can get away with
> saying 'Pedigree' brand for example is good kibble.

> Char will tel you about 'raw feeding' and she's good people but a bit
> stronger than some can take about that one aspect at first. Lets say
> even if i can't follow her full plan and disagree with some aspects, she
> helped me figure out a food allergy with my dog.

> In my case, I couldn't raw feed totally (irrelevant why to you) but
> converted to a food that doesnt cause issues for my 'pups' (only 1 of
> which seems to have food allergin issues).

Yes you can feed raw totally. You just won't deal with the gulping issue.
 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by Sam » Fri, 05 Nov 2010 01:37:33


Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
costly allergy testing.

Sam

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by sighthounds & siberian » Fri, 05 Nov 2010 02:29:20



Quote:

>Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
>of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
>Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
>meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
>of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
>Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
>regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
>shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
>to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
>costly allergy testing.

But why the food changes if his allergies are environmental?  And how
was it determined that his allergies are environmental?

Allergies in dogs are tough.  I have heard numerous times from
numerous sources that tests for food allergies in dogs are unreliable.

Atarax has antihistamine properties but it's also a sedative and it
wouldn't be my vet's first choice of an antihistamine.  Have you tried
Benadryl?  It's over the counter and inexpensive.  

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by sighthounds & siberian » Fri, 05 Nov 2010 02:47:52



Quote:

>Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
>of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
>Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
>meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
>of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
>Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
>regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
>shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
>to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
>costly allergy testing.

I'm confused.  I thought you said his allergies are environmental.  If
so, how was that determined?  Atarax is a drug with both antihistamine
and sedative properties and I'm wondering why your vet chose it,
unless your dog is itching so much he's going crazy.  Have you tried
Benadryl?  It's over the counter, inexpensive, safe for dogs, and
available without the pink dye in case your dog is sensitive to dyes.
I think you've got to find out the cause of his itching, but
unfortunately, food allergy tests in dogs can be very unreliable, with
lots of false positives.  If food allergies are suspected, you would
need to narrow down what they are by elimination.  I think raw diets
are great, but a raw diet isn't going to help if the dog is allergic
to, for example, lamb (not as common as grain allergies, but it
happens).
 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by sighthounds & siberian » Fri, 05 Nov 2010 02:49:10


On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:47:52 -0400, sighthounds & siberians

Quote:


>>Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
>>of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
>>Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
>>meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
>>of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
>>Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
>>regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
>>shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
>>to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
>>costly allergy testing.

>I'm confused.  I thought you said his allergies are environmental.  If
>so, how was that determined?  Atarax is a drug with both antihistamine
>and sedative properties and I'm wondering why your vet chose it,
>unless your dog is itching so much he's going crazy.  Have you tried
>Benadryl?  It's over the counter, inexpensive, safe for dogs, and
>available without the pink dye in case your dog is sensitive to dyes.
>I think you've got to find out the cause of his itching, but
>unfortunately, food allergy tests in dogs can be very unreliable, with
>lots of false positives.  If food allergies are suspected, you would
>need to narrow down what they are by elimination.  I think raw diets
>are great, but a raw diet isn't going to help if the dog is allergic
>to, for example, lamb (not as common as grain allergies, but it
>happens).

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to post twice; I thought I'd deleted the
earlier post.  It's been a bad week.
 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by Glenn Lyfor » Fri, 05 Nov 2010 03:08:27


Quote:
> Oops, sorry, didn't mean to post twice; I thought I'd deleted the
> earlier post. ?It's been a bad week.

As I understand it, many usenet servers will ignore cancel and delete
requests because they're too easy to forge, so it's best to assume it
is irretrievable once sent.
  --Glenn Lyford
 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by cshen » Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:23:11


"Sam" wrote

Hi Sam!

Quote:
> Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
> of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
> Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
> meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
> of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
> Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
> regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
> shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
> to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
> costly allergy testing.

Good luck with this.  My Cash-dog is a clear sign of food allergies but
yours may not be and as you have said (or your wife) it may be environmental
as well or totally that.

Me I skipped the tests and just tried grain free and it worked for *our*
situation.

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by Char » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 08:02:37



Quote:

>> Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
>> of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
>> Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
>> meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
>> of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
>> Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
>> regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
>> shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
>> to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
>> costly allergy testing.

> I think raw diets
> are great, but a raw diet isn't going to help if the dog is allergic
> to, for example, lamb (not as common as grain allergies, but it
> happens).

Sure it will. You just don't feed lamb. I know of many dogs allergic to
one or two kinds of meat that are raw fed.

I was with you till the last sentence.

Char

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by cshen » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 08:42:54


"Char" wrote

Quote:

>> even if i can't follow her full plan and disagree with some aspects, she
>> helped me figure out a food allergy with my dog.
>> In my case, I couldn't raw feed totally (irrelevant why to you) but
>> converted to a food that doesnt cause issues for my 'pups' (only 1 of
>> which seems to have food allergin issues).
> Yes you can feed raw totally. You just won't deal with the gulping issue.

My apologies Char. I think you are the resident expert on how to feed raw. I
meant only that there's some issues here that are causing complicatuons.

I haven't seen any advice other than a good grade grinder that can handle
bones to turn the cheaper chicken into a part of the diet here.

My trainer of current time is no expert on this 'gulping behavior' and how
to shift it. His as***t (while saying he's no expert in this specifc area)
is 'there are some spots you are going to have a really hard time if they
learned a behavior that they think is a deep survival need'.

It's not a matter of 'won't deal with gulping issue' as a total lack of idea
how to even start to retrain it.

I'd love some actual ideas on how to do this. Because I respect you highly
in this area, maybe if I give you more information you can give me more
things to try to adapt his behavior?

Specifics: Breed is mixed but behavior is 'beagle' a known fast eater (among
many).  Proper weight is about 50-52 lbs (mixed breed).  Will slow down on
fish or beef/pork marrow bones.  *VERY* strong jaws.  Can easily pulverise
raw chicken but does not percieve poultry bones as needing to be chomped up
before swallowing.  I have a funny feeling they seem so soft he doesnt
recognize the danger while fish bones are 'spiky' so he catches on ands
others take 'work' to get through.

What I lack is any idea on how to 'slow him down'.  Frankly my friend, 3
times of rescuing a dog trying to ***to death by fishing the bone back
out  is about 'enough'.  Lucky he's a good fellow so no one lost a finger.

I'm all ears if you have any ideas or web sites that show how to retrain a
dog who's learned bone-deep to his soul to 'eat fast'. Meantime my friend, I
will do the best I can.  What that is, is adapt to as much raw feeding as
possible with  the best kibble (blue wilderness) that I can find and
grain-free trats (much of which are just my own dehydtaor beef jerky).

Serioisly, if you can help me with something on gulping behavior, I am all
ears.

Oh and Sammy has no issues there but lacks the jaw (or has arthritis in the
jaw) to chomp more than 2 necks or wings a meal.  He's normal though with no
'gulping' issues. Sammy is getting 3/4 raw and 1/4 blue wilderness because
his jaws seem to get tired on bone-in meat too fast.  He'd convert fast to
'all raw'. Sammy as a reminder to you is estimated age 17, may be 19.  He's
been fed all his life before this on kibble or a little canned dog food cold
from the fridge.  He came here 5 weeks ago and is very happy at not just
getting 'purina brand kibble'.

No one is perfect Char.  I do not claim to be either. Meantime, I am doing
the best I can.

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by sighthounds & siberian » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:18:36




Quote:


>>> Thanks all for your input. This allergy problem has existed for most
>>> of Dakota's four years. Over the years we changed his food from
>>> Science Diet (my favorite) to all natural (LTD, etc) and even fresh
>>> meat (raw grosses out the wife) - none seemed to work with any degree
>>> of success so Vet advised to go back to Science Diet (my preference)
>>> Sensitive Skin and work on itching with medication. Treats are
>>> regular food. Just returned from office visit with specialized
>>> shampoo/conditioner and Atarax replacing the Prednisone. Next step is
>>> to detox his body of steroids and submit him to full battery of
>>> costly allergy testing.

>> I think raw diets
>> are great, but a raw diet isn't going to help if the dog is allergic
>> to, for example, lamb (not as common as grain allergies, but it
>> happens).

>Sure it will. You just don't feed lamb. I know of many dogs allergic to
>one or two kinds of meat that are raw fed.

>I was with you till the last sentence.

Yeah, I didn't say that well at all.  A friend of ours killed himself
last Sunday and my thinking processes haven't been all that clear this
week.

What I should have said was that you can't just feed a raw diet and
expect it to fix a food allergy problem unless you determine what
protein source the dog is allergic to so you can eliminate it from the
diet.  

 
 
 

HELP - Prednisone Causing Lab To Lose Hair

Post by cshen » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 05:15:00


"sighthounds & siberians" wrote

Quote:
> Yeah, I didn't say that well at all.  A friend of ours killed himself
> last Sunday and my thinking processes haven't been all that clear this
> week.

Sorry to hear that!

Quote:
> What I should have said was that you can't just feed a raw diet and
> expect it to fix a food allergy problem unless you determine what
> protein source the dog is allergic to so you can eliminate it from the
> diet.

That makes sense.  In my Cash-pups case, it's obviously a grain source
though I have not tried to figure out which of the top 3 common ones it is.
Haven't seen any issues with any type of meat but I've seen plenty on the
web to know it can happen too.

I asked my vet about an allergin test for Cash to narrow it down and they
are willing but warned me it's not covered by my insurance and can get
pretty expensive.  They suggested and I agreed that as long as grain free
feeding solves his issues, just work with that.