> HOWEDY kaeli,
> > > Because it takes only a few minutes and a few repetitions
> > > to extinguish any behavior.
> > Will any distraction work? Say a set of keys instead of a can?
> Yes, so long as the distraction is brief and random and instantly
> followed by prolonged non physical praise.
I tried this with her constant need to***, and I'll be darned if it
I am now reading that manual over and stopping all obedience work until
I'm done with it.
Just yesterday I put her on a flat collar and stopped all corrections.
Praise only. At first, she was quite confused. Today early, she was
taking advantage and being bratty (chasing the cat, getting into things,
etc). Now tonight, having received no corrections for her brattiness,
only the sound (my keys) and praise, she's starting to get the picture. I
think I am, too.
> > In fact, it's the only way I've managed Sammie's intense desire
> > to bolt up to and jump on people. She loves people. I make her sit and
> > she can't jump as long as she's sitting. But you can tell she still
> > to.
> Right. What you're doing does not extinguish the desire or anxitey
> involved with the behavior. In fact, training an incompatible behavior
> is time consuming and may be stressful for everyone.
I am seeing that.
I'm going to try it with the sound. It stopped her incessant***ing
(when you pet her, she***s and mouths your hand) within 5 minutes. She
has not relapsed yet, which is already a big thing, since it's something
she's always done. I've never gotten her to stop for more than a few
minutes, much less two days. So I'll see if it stops her need to jump,
> Good. It's a bit of a stretch to see things HOWE your dog does.
Not only seeing things from her POV, but changing my thoughts, too. I am
having to retrain my thought process more than anything with this. My
first response is to say "no" and give a correction. Stopping that
response is actually not an easy thing to do. Makes me think first, which
has got to be a good thing. LOL
> > She loves people.
> Excellent. A lot of e***ment over making introductions
> can be simply stress from pryor difficult meetings where
> stress was incured.
And I bet it is stressful for her, now that I'm thinking this way. She
meets someone and the first thing that happens to her is a correction for
jumping. She whines and wiggles - that has to be stress, doesn't it?
> Right. Any time a consistent behavior can be predicted
> means we can set it up to be distracted and praised in
> several successive successful repetitions to fully
> extinguish it, EZ.
She'll be the easiest to set up, too. She's very predictable.
> > That's what the leash is for.
> No. Cause when you force control you trigger the opposition
> reflex and drive the dog out of control. Your forthcoming efforts
> to control the dog REPRESS the opposition reflex, and causes
> the behavior problem to CHANGE to other, often worse, seemingly
> non related behavior problems as trainsfer or replacement behaviors.
Like when dogs (puppies) first get a collar and lead and feel the pull
and go crazy trying to get away?
> That's HOWE COME I don't give advice for individual
> behavior problems. To cure all behavior problems we've
> got to learn the basic handling techniques like not tellin
> the dog NO or forcing restraint to control the dog and
> never having any negative associations or *** to
> diminish your authority...
Speaking of negative associations, I must add that with only two days
(less, really, a day and a half) Sam is already maintaining more eye
contact and relaxing closer to me. That is, instead of laying across the
room, she lays at my feet.
> > Okay, say I have Sam off lead. I want to teach her the
> > come command.
> Be a little late teachin the come command, if you ask me...
Why? Can't this technique work on all dogs regardless of age or history?
Or am I missing the point?
> > How can I teach her that if the distraction of throwing the
> > can (or keys or whatever) doesn't get her attention?
> First, we condition the dog to getting praise with every
> brief eye contact. Then we desensitize the dog to being
> force controled on lead through the Hot & Cold Exercise.
> Then we condition the dog to follow us through the Family
> Leadership Exercise. Then we rely on all of that to compel
> the dog to follow the program. Conditioning happens in just
> a few puperly performed instances of following the EZ
If I begin fresh, can I now do these in order?
We do an exercise close to the Family Leadership often, and the Hot and
Cold sounds like my normal daily outing. The eye contact I am currently
doing. Should I stop the others until the eye contact is perfect?
> > She will come when called at any other time.
> Well, we don't want to start off calling her because
> we already agree calling the dog will not break the
> dog's THOUGHTS of the undesirable behaviors.
So the distraction then? Followed by praise?
Should I call her at all or just distract her?
> > Don't those Flexi's put pressure on the dog's collar?
> Hardly moore than the weight of a length of rope.
> > Or is that just the doofs I see walking using them wrong?
> Probably so.
Yeah, they must be, because those dogs pull like crazy.
Opposition reflex in action, that's for sure.
> > I use those long leads and let them drag.
> Because her come command fails with squirrels...
And the leash laws that require it.
We have to have them here, even if the dog is an angel in fur. I live in
a condo, so no yard.
> > How can you condition the behavior if the dog has not
> > reacted and is still barking at the fence?
> Because we're working with the thoughts, not the body.
> By the time the body responds to the thought, the thoughts
> are already on the next attraction. That's YOU if you're
> praising the sound, not waitin for the dog to look where
> nobody's attracting him but the other dog.
> Now you get it? We condition the dog to respond, and
> he will, if we just follow the techniques as we've conditioned
> the dog.
Yeah, I think I do get it. If you are only a positive thing for the dog,
not someone who does negative things, he won't have any stress about
responding to you. He will already want to come to you and get praise and
pets, knowing he will never be corrected.
I also think I'm going to have to recondition my thinking patterns for
> > Or am I misreading?
> I think you're catchin on. If you do catch on, you're not
> gonna be real pupular around here no MOORE...
I'm not popular now. LOL
I come with an open mind and a desire for a healthy, happy dog.
If I get awesome results with pure positive training, why wouldn't I use
it? This mindset change will be way harder for me than for her. I'm
already seeing positive benefits. And I just started.
> > I'd love to feel 100% control with no leash.
> It'll take you a couple days, maybe four. Takes folks
> with a lot of experience a bit longer than new students...
Yeah, we have to drop all our habituated responses of correcting the dog.
That has not been easy.
> > I'd never trust her off lead around a lot of distractions.
> Not till you're the most significant attraction in her whole
> wide world. Ought to be EZ. Just never tell her NO and
> never force control and always praise and follow all the
> techniques taught in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
> End Dog Training Method manual and ask me for help
> if you need any and your dog will naturally want to do
> every thing you ask, cause THAT'S the nature of the beast.
I think I'm really starting to see why she's so distracted - when I
correct her all the time, but "strangers" never do, why wouldn't she want
to go to them? Same with other distractions, I'm sure.
> > If no petting, why not? Curious -
> There's been a couple threads about that. Our dog
> lovers try to make folks think that means NEVER
> pat your dog. Our dog lovers will intentionally
> misconstrue every thing me or my students say
> because they PREFER to force hurt and intimidate
> their dogs.
So just don't be all exuberantly petting them while they're thinking
because it becomes a distraction, then?
Now that I think about it, if I was trying to think and someone gave me a
hug, I'd lose my focus. I'd be thinking about the hug now, not what I was
doing. Is that right?
> > That the command is pleasant?
> That's VITAL. Isn't it, kaeli?
Yes, I suppose it is.
Otherwise it becomes stressful, right?
Then they can't think.
> The problem is you want to SEE something happen
> instead of setting things up to let them happen.
Another mindset thing I'll need to change. Over-analyzing.
> > They are precise, but they don't explain well.
> Yeah. That's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid.
This conversation is clearing up a lot.
And I re-read it (almost; I'm to the last part) and picked up some stuff
I missed the first time about it opening up the dog's mind, not just
making it an automaton. Which I liked, by the way.
> > > Perhaps. Does she come instantly the first time every time?
> > > That's what The Puppy Wizard expects.
> > No. I'll admit it. But I'd like her to. *G*
> Do the exercises and she will. Don't skip anything and
> ask me for help if it's not going along as instructed.
I'm going to start from the beginning. I think I need to regain my dog's
> > Allow the dog a choice and she may choose to play in traffic.
> If we failed to make ourself MOORE attractive than the
> street. Or if we've failed to teach the dog the street.
> Dogs can learn to cross streets just like kids do.
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