Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Description of your first forum.

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by ange.. » Wed, 17 May 1995 04:00:00



I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at the door
or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  Since
we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to become a
nuisance to our neighbors.

Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there something we
can do to correct the barking we don't want?

Thanks a lot for your advice.  

Angie

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Tim O'Bri » Thu, 18 May 1995 04:00:00



Quote:

>I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
>bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
>appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at the
door
>or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  
Since
>we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to
become a
>nuisance to our neighbors.

>Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there something
we
>can do to correct the barking we don't want?

>Thanks a lot for your advice.  

>Angie

Our daughter-in-law used a "bark collar" on her austrailian shepard.  It
is a battery operated box on a collar which is tuned to your dog's bark,
then gives the dog a shock everytime it barks.  I am somewhat
uncomfortable with the concept, but it did work.  The dog still barks,
but in moderation such that neighbors no longer complain.

Probably a tool of last resort!

FWIW

Tim O'Brien

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Kevin » Thu, 18 May 1995 04:00:00


Welcome to the fold.. from my experience the Elkhound is put on the
earth to BARK!!
 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by tlaukka.. » Thu, 18 May 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> Welcome to the fold.. from my experience the Elkhound is put on the
> earth to BARK!!

That's true, Norwegian Elkhound is a hunting breed and they hunt by *barking*!
Maybe extensive training not to bark could help a little, though.

;) Tiina & Peppi The ***hound
   from Helsinki, Finland

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by J & S Thurst » Fri, 19 May 1995 04:00:00



Quote:

>I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and

Gee, I think I must be living beside you!
 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by ange.. » Fri, 19 May 1995 04:00:00


Quote:



>> >I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
>> >bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
>> >appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at the
>> door
>> >or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  
>> Since
>> >we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to
>> become a
>> >nuisance to our neighbors.

>> >Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there something
>> we
>> >can do to correct the barking we don't want?

>> >Thanks a lot for your advice.

>> Our daughter-in-law used a "bark collar" on her austrailian shepard.  It
>> is a battery operated box on a collar which is tuned to your dog's bark,
>> then gives the dog a shock everytime it barks.  I am somewhat
>> uncomfortable with the concept, but it did work.  The dog still barks,
>> but in moderation such that neighbors no longer complain.

>> Probably a tool of last resort!

>> FWIW

>> Tim O'Brien

> A friend of mine who works in a vet clinic spoke favorably
> of removing (surgically) a dog's bark.  I have always thought
> this was aterrible thing to do, but he seemed to think it
> more humane than a bark collar.  When pressed, I couldn't name
> a specific reason why a dog needed a bark, other than to warn
> off burglars, so I guess it comes down to the docking discussion:
> Do we have the right to surgically alter our animal companions
> to meet our personal specs.

> I do think that if it comes down to a serious problem, as in
> shut the dog up or put it down (which point I almost reached
> with a neurotic and unreasonable neighbor who took a legitimate
> complaint-daytime barking- to ridiculous measures- court
> battle), having it surgically debarked is certainly a viable
> option.

> Please don't think I'm suggesting it as an option for your
> dog!  I think the problem would have to be very serious before
> I would even consider such a drastic measure.
> --
> Michele Ellington


Actually, I'd rather not debark her at this point since she is just a pup.
I am looking for some good training suggestions on how to control her
barking.  Like you said, that would be the LAST resort for us.

How has anyone else used training to control unwanted barking?  Pass your
tips along please ...

Angie

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Michele Ellingt » Fri, 19 May 1995 04:00:00


Quote:


> >I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
> >bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
> >appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at the
> door
> >or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  
> Since
> >we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to
> become a
> >nuisance to our neighbors.

> >Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there something
> we
> >can do to correct the barking we don't want?

> >Thanks a lot for your advice.  

> >Angie
> Our daughter-in-law used a "bark collar" on her austrailian shepard.  It
> is a battery operated box on a collar which is tuned to your dog's bark,
> then gives the dog a shock everytime it barks.  I am somewhat
> uncomfortable with the concept, but it did work.  The dog still barks,
> but in moderation such that neighbors no longer complain.
> Probably a tool of last resort!
> FWIW
> Tim O'Brien


A friend of mine who works in a vet clinic spoke favorably
of removing (surgically) a dog's bark.  I have always thought
this was aterrible thing to do, but he seemed to think it
more humane than a bark collar.  When pressed, I couldn't name
a specific reason why a dog needed a bark, other than to warn
off burglars, so I guess it comes down to the docking discussion:
Do we have the right to surgically alter our animal companions
to meet our personal specs.

I do think that if it comes down to a serious problem, as in
shut the dog up or put it down (which point I almost reached
with a neurotic and unreasonable neighbor who took a legitimate
complaint-daytime barking- to ridiculous measures- court
battle), having it surgically debarked is certainly a viable
option.

Please don't think I'm suggesting it as an option for your
dog!  I think the problem would have to be very serious before
I would even consider such a drastic measure.
--
Michele Ellington

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Tracy Smi » Fri, 19 May 1995 04:00:00


: I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
: bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
: appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at the door
: or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  Since
: we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to become a
: nuisance to our neighbors.
: Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there something we
: can do to correct the barking we don't want?

Hi, Angela!  Elkhounds bark at anything new and unusual, and when you're
15 weeks old, that takes in alot!!  As my Elkies have gotten older, they've
barked less.  Yes, that's a relative term, because they always bark :-).
What we've done when home is to douse Impi with the hose- he hates water
(most Elkies do), so that shuts him up.  We even had a sprinkler setup
with a remote control so we could just set him up while we were out of
sight.

She should outgrow most of the barking, hang in there!

Tracy Lorraine Smith  Mom to Impi and Karoo

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Rachel Priebe » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> > >I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
> > >bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
> > >can do to correct the barking we don't want?

We *try*, with limited success because unfortunately the three of us
humans are inconsistent, to teach our dogs to stop when we tell them
"that's enough"

It usually works.  Lately I've started gently holding Murphy's
muzzle closed if she continues to bark after I've told her that's enough.
Trial and error, I think, as to what works with your dog.

As far as the electric collars work, I think I'd want one with a
remote control so you could only turn it on after you've told the
dog to be quiet.

Rachel

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Nick » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00



Quote:
Ellington) writes:



>> >I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark*
(and
>> >bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
>> >appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at
the
>> door
>> >or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.
>> Since
>> >we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to
>> become a
>> >nuisance to our neighbors.

>> >Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there
something
>> we
>> >can do to correct the barking we don't want?

>> >Thanks a lot for your advice.  

>> >Angie

>> Our daughter-in-law used a "bark collar" on her austrailian shepard.
 It
>> is a battery operated box on a collar which is tuned to your dog's
bark,
>> then gives the dog a shock everytime it barks.  I am somewhat
>> uncomfortable with the concept, but it did work.  The dog still
barks,
>> but in moderation such that neighbors no longer complain.

>> Probably a tool of last resort!

>> FWIW

>> Tim O'Brien

>A friend of mine who works in a vet clinic spoke favorably
>of removing (surgically) a dog's bark.  I have always thought
>this was aterrible thing to do, but he seemed to think it
>more humane than a bark collar.  When pressed, I couldn't name
>a specific reason why a dog needed a bark, other than to warn
>off burglars, so I guess it comes down to the docking discussion:
>Do we have the right to surgically alter our animal companions
>to meet our personal specs.

>I do think that if it comes down to a serious problem, as in
>shut the dog up or put it down (which point I almost reached
>with a neurotic and unreasonable neighbor who took a legitimate
>complaint-daytime barking- to ridiculous measures- court
>battle), having it surgically debarked is certainly a viable
>option.

>Please don't think I'm suggesting it as an option for your
>dog!  I think the problem would have to be very serious before
>I would even consider such a drastic measure.
>--
>Michele Ellington


The first time I heard about debarking, I thought it was the most
atrocious
thing I ever heard of.  Shortly after that time, we got our two
Siberian
puppies.  Within months, some human female dog behind us was collecting

signatures on a petition to the homeowners association in the community
where
we live, complaining about the noise.  In asking around, my immediate
neighbors said they never heard a thing, that you wouldn't even know
they were
there.  Since this had hit us out of the blue, I was most upset that
this
person hadn't approached me directly right from the beginning.  I then
stayed
home from work on 7 separate occasions, with the window above their pen
open
and a bucket of water standing by.  Not a peep.  I figured the problem
had
gone away.  A few months later, this woman complained again to the
association
giving times and dates when I KNEW it hadn't been my dogs and I had an
extremely heated debate with her, each of us accusing the other of
being
liars.  By this time, I couldn't sleep at night, worrying about this.  
However, some of my friends said on occasion the dogs would sing for
about 2
to 5 minutes at a time.  This didn't seem excessive to me and I hadn't
heard
anything from the creep for awhile, so more time went by.  

One day, though, I came home from work and thought the local firehouse
(.1
miles from us) had their siren going.  Then I realized that my guys
were in
full song.  Now they had done this in the house a few times, but only
if we
intentionally got them started.  This was the first time I had heard
the echos
bouncing off the houses around us.  However, since they are only
outside
during the day time, and with us the rest of the time, I thought this
woman
couldn't really do anything about it.

Then came the morning I had a cop at my door at 7:30 AM because this
person
had issued a complaint.  It turns out the local ordinance is such that
if you
have bronchitis and cough too much, your neighbor can drag you into
court.  We
hired ourselves a lawyer, but I realized that even if we "beat this
rap" she
could keep complaining and keep dragging us into court every day for
the rest
of our lives.  So we had them debarked.  (The veternarian went down
their
throats and "nicked" their vocal cords.)  Yes, they sound like the
godfather
and no they can't sing their beautiful songs any more.  But for almost
a year,
we had this*** over our heads every waking and many sleeping hours
and I
couldn't take it anymore.  After two years, they can bark, but not
sing.  They
try to sing and do choruses together that sound like a lot of air
escaping
from something, but it doesn't carry the way it used to.  They are
happy as
clams and I don't ever have to worry anymore that it might be my dogs.
(Like
a man with a vasectomy.)

I agonized about this decision for months and have never really
regretted it
for long, but I do miss the singing.  Our next house will be in the
boonies so
we never have to do it again.  By the way, I think they now in some
ways
vocalize more than ever, it's just not so LOUD.

Betty Anne Shores

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Mike Shi » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00



Quote:


(Michele Ellington) writes:


>>> >I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark*
(and
>>> >bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
>>> >appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at
the
>>> door
>>> >or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  
>>> Since
>>> >we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to
>>> become a
>>> >nuisance to our neighbors.

>>> >Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there
something
>>> we
>>> >can do to correct the barking we don't want?

>>> >Thanks a lot for your advice.

>>> Our daughter-in-law used a "bark collar" on her austrailian shepard.
 It
>>> is a battery operated box on a collar which is tuned to your dog's
bark,
>>> then gives the dog a shock everytime it barks.  I am somewhat
>>> uncomfortable with the concept, but it did work.  The dog still
barks,
>>> but in moderation such that neighbors no longer complain.

>>> Probably a tool of last resort!

>>> FWIW

>>> Tim O'Brien

SNIP

>Actually, I'd rather not debark her at this point since she is just a
pup.
>I am looking for some good training suggestions on how to control her
>barking.  Like you said, that would be the LAST resort for us.

>How has anyone else used training to control unwanted barking?  Pass
your
>tips along please ...

>Angie

I have used tri-tronics collars with success, although not on my current
dog.  I must say that they have "Bark reduction mode" on the collars
which only shocks them after they continue to bark, not just everytime
they bark, I forget the date, but Gun Dog had a really good article
on this, so If you are really interested E mail me and I will chase the
article down...DOn;t feel bad about using an electronic collar though,
it is a consistent way of telling a dog that certain behaviour is
bad, and It works even when you aren;t there.  Hopefully this helps

Mike Shirk

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by S. Schellenbe » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00


I posted this on another thread in this same newsgroup yesterday.  For
those of you who have already read it, my apologies.  For those who
haven't, here it is again.

I had always said that I would never get a dog debarked . . . until we got
Rhonda.  She came to us when she was five years old and already debarked.
She had lived in the kennel of a serious and responsible breeder who had
neighbors nearby.  The debarking doesn't bother her a bit.  In fact, she
usually sets our other dogs off because she barks first.

I still have not debarked one of my own dogs, but if there were a
circumstance where it would alleviate a war with the neighbors, I would
look at it as the considerate thing to do, both to the dog and to the
neighbor.  I've run into enough true dog haters through the years that I
don't want to take chances.

BTW, I have Kerry Blue Terriers, who never bark unless there's a reason.
Only problem is, just about anything is a reason (the neighbor's cat
crossing their living room rug, for instance).  Our house gets a bit noisy
sometimes and Rhonda (now thir*** years old) is usually leading the pack.

--
Stephen J. Schellenberg, Ph.D.

*************************
The Ph.D. is a piece of paper pronouncing one full.  No further knowledge can be imparted to him.  --Stephen Leacock
*************************

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Robert Alvin Wee » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00


: Welcome to the fold.. from my experience the Elkhound is put on the
: earth to BARK!!

   Not all elkhounds. My elkie barks when the mailman and garbage trucks
come by, but otherwise he's very quiet relative to the other dogs in the
neighborhood.

 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Stuart Jose » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00



Quote:



>> >I have a 15-week-old Elkhound that has learned that she can *bark* (and
>> >bark, and bark, and bark, etc.)  While we want her to bark when
>> >appropriate, such as to go out, to come in, when strangers are at the
>> door
>> >or in the driveway, we don't want her to bark excessively outside.  
>> Since
>> >we live in a residential area in town, I don't want her barking to
>> become a
>> >nuisance to our neighbors.

>> >Is this just a puppy stage that she will outgrow or is there something
>> we
>> >can do to correct the barking we don't want?

>> >Thanks a lot for your advice.  

>> >Angie

>> Our daughter-in-law used a "bark collar" on her austrailian shepard.  It
>> is a battery operated box on a collar which is tuned to your dog's bark,
>> then gives the dog a shock everytime it barks.  I am somewhat
>> uncomfortable with the concept, but it did work.  The dog still barks,
>> but in moderation such that neighbors no longer complain.

>> Probably a tool of last resort!

>> FWIW

>> Tim O'Brien

>A friend of mine who works in a vet clinic spoke favorably
>of removing (surgically) a dog's bark.  I have always thought
>this was aterrible thing to do, but he seemed to think it
>more humane than a bark collar.  When pressed, I couldn't name
>a specific reason why a dog needed a bark, other than to warn
>off burglars, so I guess it comes down to the docking discussion:
>Do we have the right to surgically alter our animal companions
>to meet our personal specs.

>I do think that if it comes down to a serious problem, as in
>shut the dog up or put it down (which point I almost reached
>with a neurotic and unreasonable neighbor who took a legitimate
>complaint-daytime barking- to ridiculous measures- court
>battle), having it surgically debarked is certainly a viable
>option.

>Please don't think I'm suggesting it as an option for your
>dog!  I think the problem would have to be very serious before
>I would even consider such a drastic measure.
>--
>Michele Ellington


I knew some people once, who had a dog that barked constantly, so it was trained
to not bark. However, once the policetold them at a Neighborhood Watch meeting,
that one of the best burglar deterrants is a barking dog, they retrained it to
bark.
The surgical proceedure, in my opinion, is very radical, and irreversible, so, I
would opt for trying to train the dog not to bark, or use the anti-bark collar.
Stuart Joseph
 
 
 

Bark (and bark and bark ...)

Post by Stuart Jose » Sat, 20 May 1995 04:00:00


I had to write when I saw your name was Thurston- do you by any chance have any
relatives in Iowa?
I am trying to trace some and would appreciate the information.
Thanks,
Stuart Joseph