Don't Point A Finger At Me

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Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Robert Seymo » Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:00:00



My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

First of all there is no such thing as a pure breed.  Modern day dogs
are the result of cross breeding.  Tinkering with a mixture of breeds
until the desired results are met, and then stopping.  

With the above said, how can you people sit here and call me a troll for
a serious post?  A few dogs get hurt trying to make a new breed! What
about the giant poodle?  Don't you think things got a little messy?  Why
are you yelling at me? All I did was put the cruel methods in front of
your face. Look at your dog, and think about what it took to get there.

Here is my plan:
1st generation= minature poodle+lab
2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs have, you will see that
my breed will be amungst the best.  

This troll calling is unfair, and uncalled for.  If you think that I am
wrong okay.  Don't sit there and insult me.  I give you the same
respect.  You have seen trolls in here.  I haven't come close to being
one.  A troll is not someone who you disagree with.

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Twzl & Sligo, Happy Togeth » Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
>some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll
trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll

Do us a favor, ok? Toss out that stupid webtv and leave the net to the
grownups. Thanks.

Ann, Twzl & Sligo
--
"I could save every dog in every shelter. But what good would that do?"
        Michael Patton's answer to dog overpopulation
============================================================================

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by DogStar7 » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Here is my plan:
>1st generation= minature poodle+lab
>2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
>3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

>If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs have, you will see that
>my breed will be amungst the best.  

Well, I really had no comment until I read your 3rd generation plan....  the
wolf part ruined the whole thing.  

Dogstar716
 "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.  You are
   his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true,
   to the last beat of his heart.  You owe it to him to be worthy of such
   devotion"
   -- Unknow

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by ShibaRul » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>>Here is my plan:
>>1st generation= minature poodle+lab
>>2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
>>3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

>>If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs have, you will see that
>>my breed will be amungst the best.  

Hmm, Why are you looking to mix so many unrelated types?

 I am NOT in favor of mixing dogs, but I have to wonder WHY you are using a
mini Poodle, since all the other breeds are large?  Why use a wolf, which is
not a dog?  What are you hoping to create?

 Most breeds were designed for a specific function. Are you just hoping to do
this and see what you get?

 Do you think that the crosses will produce only the positive aspects of the
breeds involved?

WHERE are you going to get your breeding stock from?  How are you going to
place the generations of dogs that you will create on your road to making a new
mixed breed dog?

Can you see why some folks feel you may be a troll?

Chris  Wolff
http://members.aol.com/ShibaRuled/GryWolff.html

Don't buy from pet shops: http://mwmbers.aol.com/ShibaRuled/Petshop.html
If you don't RESCUE, DON'T breed!

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by René Huiskam » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


This is really ridiculous.

What is the use of trying to obtain such a creature anyway.
I really think there are already too much dog breeds 2created" by mankind
and what is the result?
Hysteric byting and attacking Pitt-bulls, G.S.D with Hip problems,..dogs
that need all kind of special treatments to keep alive!
If you just look at all dog breeds that sometime were popular.
Most of these breeds were definitively spoiled and lost their best
characteristics.
Look at Greyhounds, who are too heavy too run!?
Just bred by some idiot who tries to get more money out of it.
If you need a dog don't make this kind of ridiculous and unfair (for the
dogs) experiments and go to an expert so they can inform you about the kind
of dog that suits you.
Probably there will be not a such a dog anyway. It will probably be too
intelligent for you.

Stop this nonsens!

Ren Huiskamp


Quote:
> My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
> some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

> First of all there is no such thing as a pure breed.  Modern day dogs
> are the result of cross breeding.  Tinkering with a mixture of breeds
> until the desired results are met, and then stopping.  

> With the above said, how can you people sit here and call me a troll for
> a serious post?  A few dogs get hurt trying to make a new breed! What
> about the giant poodle?  Don't you think things got a little messy?  Why
> are you yelling at me? All I did was put the cruel methods in front of
> your face. Look at your dog, and think about what it took to get there.

> Here is my plan:
> 1st generation= minature poodle+lab
> 2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
> 3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

> If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs have, you will see that
> my breed will be amungst the best.  

> This troll calling is unfair, and uncalled for.  If you think that I am
> wrong okay.  Don't sit there and insult me.  I give you the same
> respect.  You have seen trolls in here.  I haven't come close to being
> one.  A troll is not someone who you disagree with.

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Bob & Trish Yan » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>First of all there is no such thing as a pure breed.  >Modern day dogs
>are the result of cross breeding.  Tinkering with a >mixture of breeds
>until the desired results are met, and then stopping.

MAYBE......

Quote:
>A few dogs get hurt trying to make a new breed!

WHY would you want to hurt your dogs, especially that poor mini poodle
female, do you realize what kind of toll this breeding will take one her,
possibly fatal???

Quote:
>What about the giant poodle?  Don't you think things >got a little messy?

Why are you yelling at me?

No one is yelling, just trying to make you see what you are actually forcing
upon these dogs.

Quote:
>All I did was put the cruel methods in front of
>your face. Look at your dog, and think about what it >took to get there.

You are right, no dogs that are here today haven't come from a mix of
something, somewhere back in time. Back when there were no animal welfare
laws, no ASPCA to protect animals from forced breedings that will result in
who knows what!

Quote:
>Here is my plan:
>1st generation= minature poodle+lab
>2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
>3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

What a farce! And what do you plan to call this "wonderful new breed"??

Quote:
>If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs >have, you will see that
>my breed will be amungst the best.

And what if you get the WORST qualities of these dogs? Poodle.....most
likely needing c-section? Luxating patella? Others that I do not know,
because I am not familiar with small breed genetics.
Labs, Mastiffs.....HOD, Von Willebrands, OCD, thyroid problems??
Add the wolf in there, and end up with something vicious?
What would you call your terrific new breed then? A MESS.....thats what it
would be.

Quote:
>A troll is not someone who you disagree with.

You are right about this, but someone who comes on this list and questions
who to force breed a mini poodle to a full grown lab, then cross that to a
mastiff, then a wolf, certainly has a name. And it is NOT a reputable
breeder!!!!!
What you are doing is, IMO, cruelty to animals.
Trish
 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Carrol » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

First of all there is no such thing as a pure breed.  Modern day dogs
are the result of cross breeding.  Tinkering with a mixture of breeds
until the desired results are met, and then stopping.

Robert, a pure bred is a breed of animal which breeds true to type.  If you
breed to so-called "purebred" rough collies together, what do you get? 2
dogs that look like their parents.  A lot like their parents.  Depending on
genotype, perhaps the coloration might be different, and if you're lucky
you'll get a smooth, but the body shape is very close to that of the
parents.  If you breed two black labradors together, what do you get?  8 or
10 little black labs that will grow up to look a lot like their parents.

Yes, purebreds do exist.

With the above said, how can you people sit here and call me a troll for
a serious post?  A few dogs get hurt trying to make a new breed! What
about the giant poodle?  Don't you think things got a little messy?  Why
are you yelling at me? All I did was put the cruel methods in front of
your face. Look at your dog, and think about what it took to get there.

The giant poodle?  You take 2-20 inch poodles.  Cross them.  You'll get a 21
inch.  Keep trying, you'll get another taller dog, and so forth.

Here is my plan:
1st generation= minature poodle+lab
2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs have, you will see that
my breed will be amungst the best.

I won't call you a troll.  A lot of times people put idiotic posts to this
NG for the sole purpose of getting everyone pissed off.  From what you
wrote, that's damn well what it looked like (excuse the language).

What about the bad parts of thse breeds?  Hip displasia in labs & mastiffs.
The extremely shy nature of wolves.  The nippiness of the poodles if not
raised properly, not to mention unstable temperaments of all 4 breeds!

So what you'll end up with is:
50% wolf
25% mastiff
12.5% poodle
12.5% Lab.

a 50% wolf is *not* a great family pet!  It will probably be quite difficult
with children, with the mastiff and lab will have bad hips, will die at
about 8 years because of the mastiff, probably need regular grooming due to
the poodle, will definitely have floppy ears which without regular attention
become infected about five times a year.

You will have a dog that likes to chase small things like children,
hopefully in friendliness.

And if you breed a female to a larger male chances are she'll die in birth!
Because of the mastiff, your dogs will probably need c-sections at every
whelping.  Color, coat, and type will not be guaranteed.

It won't be a purebred.  It will be 50% wolf and 50% mutt.

This troll calling is unfair, and uncalled for.  If you think that I am
wrong okay.  Don't sit there and insult me.  I give you the same
respect.  You have seen trolls in here.  I haven't come close to being
one.  A troll is not someone who you disagree with.

Emily

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by I » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>>My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
>>some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.
>trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll
>trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll
>Do us a favor, ok? Toss out that stupid webtv and leave the net to the
>grownups. Thanks.

<lol> So now someone expressing his opinion is a troll.  Has it ever
occurred to you that the problems affecting certain dog "breeds" have
to do with literally hundreds of years of inbreeding?  Mutts live
longer, are generally healthier and better-tempered.  (So naturally, I
own a purebred***er :>).  If anything, our friend's poodle-lab mix
will have some healthy genes to pass on.  The only problem I can see
is what to call the dog :)
 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Elizabeth B. Nai » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> The giant poodle?  You take 2-20 inch poodles.  Cross them.  You'll get a 21
> inch.  Keep trying, you'll get another taller dog, and so forth.

Okay, I'm wondering if there is a "giant poodle" that I haven't heard
of?  I know the Toy, Miniature and Standard, and I expect some people
breed oversized Standards (probably as described above, and essentially
harmless if the breeding stock has healthy structure and bones, at least
up to a point).  I've heard of people breeding Minis and/or Standards to
get the size in between the Mini and the Standard.  Is the "giant poodle"
another name for deliberately bred oversized Standards, and do they have
problems?  Maybe I jumped to a conclusion in assuming that there is no
such thing...

I still suspect this was a troll... throwing in the miniature Poodle
being a bit of a joke (I mean, if you really want a lab/poodle cross,
there's always the Standard...)  If it isn't a troll, well I commend you
on your patience.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth B. Naime            *   Email may be forwarded and/or posted

CUR 70 / FUR 212              *       * Standard Disclaimers Apply*
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Puddysmom » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00



My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

With the above said, how can you people sit here and call me a troll for
a serious post?  A few dogs get hurt trying to make a new breed! What
about the giant poodle?  Don't you think things got a little messy?  Why

You stated in your first post,under the heading "Breeding", that the reason
you wanted to do this was to ...and I quote..."We have been trying to make a
strange looking mongrel"....

Sorry...if thats your only motivation,your barking up the wrong tree.When
breeds started to develop,it was out of a specific need.Whether to be a
working dog,a hunting dog,or even a lap dog.Back when, people did not look
at their animals and say.."Gee,lets see how weird a mutt we can make".

Seems to me you better come up with a better reason than that!
     R.

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Ton » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>I've heard of people breeding Minis and/or
>Standards to get the size in between the Mini
>and the Standard. Is the "giant poodle" another
>name for deliberately bred oversized Standards,

The huge Standard is called a "Royale", and the one in between the Mini
and Standard is called a "Caniche".
IMO, the Royale is too much, while the Caniche is actually a nice sized
dog.
 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by LW » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> >>My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
> >>some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

> >trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll
> >trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll

> >Do us a favor, ok? Toss out that stupid webtv and leave the net to the
> >grownups. Thanks.

> <lol> So now someone expressing his opinion is a troll.  Has it ever
> occurred to you that the problems affecting certain dog "breeds" have
> to do with literally hundreds of years of inbreeding?  Mutts live
> longer, are generally healthier and better-tempered.  (So naturally, I
> own a purebred***er :>).  If anything, our friend's poodle-lab mix
> will have some healthy genes to pass on.  

If it doesn't have hip dysplasia or some other genetic defect in the
first place, that is.

Quote:
>The only problem I can see is what to call the dog :)

That's easy. M-U-T-T.

LW

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Jim » Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Okay, you're not a troll. You are just a damn idiot. Happy?
Jim<-----still think he is a troll because if he was serious someone
would have already put him down. (think about it)
Quote:

> My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has
> created
> some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.

> First of all there is no such thing as a pure breed.  Modern day dogs
> are the result of cross breeding.  Tinkering with a mixture of breeds
> until the desired results are met, and then stopping.

> With the above said, how can you people sit here and call me a troll
> for
> a serious post?  A few dogs get hurt trying to make a new breed! What
> about the giant poodle?  Don't you think things got a little messy?
> Why
> are you yelling at me? All I did was put the cruel methods in front of

> your face. Look at your dog, and think about what it took to get
> there.

> Here is my plan:
> 1st generation= minature poodle+lab
> 2nd generation=poodle lab mix+mastiff
> 3rd generation=poodle,lab, mastiff mix+wolf

> If you add in all the GREAT qualities these dogs have, you will see
> that
> my breed will be amungst the best.

> This troll calling is unfair, and uncalled for.  If you think that I
> am
> wrong okay.  Don't sit there and insult me.  I give you the same
> respect.  You have seen trolls in here.  I haven't come close to being

> one.  A troll is not someone who you disagree with.

 
 
 

Don't Point A Finger At Me

Post by Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffi » Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Trolling Trolling Trolling keep those posts a rolling until you get them
roiling -
Dogs Hide
(if you are old enough you know the tune to hum)
Apparently 'Robert' believes that if the first troll does not work one
should use a heavier line....
Nancy
may the poodle let Robert know what the word *** really means!



Quote:
> My post about my plans to breed a minature poodle and a lab has created
> some anger, so let me say a few things in my defense.
> snip defenseless troll talk