Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

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Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by Robin Coo » Tue, 09 Jul 1996 04:00:00



AM STAFFS VS. PIT BULLS
The American Staffordshire Terriers original breed name was American
Bull Terrier.  The name was changed to Staffordshire Terrier (even though
it has no roots in Staffordshire) in order to gain AKC acceptance, and
not cause confusion between this breed and the Bull Terrier.  In 1936,
the AKC promised that it would not recognize the Staffordshire Bull
Terrier which had gained recognition in England the previous year.  To
AKCs credit, the breed was not recognized until 1972 (the Staffy Bull).
 This triggered another name change to the Staffordshire Terrier.  The
breed was now the American Staffordshire Terrier, and hopefully will
remain so.

Are we thoroughly confused now!?  What does all of this have to so with
the American Pit Bull Terrier?  Actuall it has nothing to do with the
APBT.

The American Staffordshire Terrier breed is registered with the American
Kennel Club, the official purebred dog registry of the United States of
America.  It is also recognized by most of the official registries of
other countries, with England being one of the exceptions.

The American Pit Bull Terrier is only registered by privately owned
businesses that operate as dog registries.  Those businesses have an open
registry policy, and will register dogs with no history of being
purebred.  No official registry of any country recognizes the American
Pit Bull Terrier.  Several years ago the owner of one of the registries
asked the Canadian Kennel Club to consider the APBT for CKC recognition.
 The CKC sent a delegation down to Kalamazoo, Michigan to inspect the
records.  After careful scrutiny, the delegation determined thatCKC could
not recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier because the breed ...is not
purebred at this time.

When one person, a business owner, whose livlihood depends upon the
numbers of dogs his business registers sets all policy for the breeds his
business registers surely the emphasis is more upon the quantity rather
that the quality of the dogs.

I think we can all agree that AKC is not perfect, certainly it is a work
in progress by the fact that it has members, and santioned clubs whose
boards are made up of caring and dedicated fanciers of their respective
breeds, but AKC has the best system of checks and balances because of its
construct.

This was supposed to be a comparative of the American Staffordshire
Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier, but somehow the differences in
the breeds are really about the differences in the people who have
control over them, and those persons desires, aspirations, and
intentions.

Robin

 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by Cindy Tittle Moo » Tue, 09 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>The American Staffordshire Terrier breed is registered with the American
>Kennel Club, the official purebred dog registry of the United States of
>America.  

The AKC *IS NOT* the "official" dog registry of the USA.  There IS NO
SUCH THING IN THE US.  In Canada, yes and I'm sure in other countries,
there are official government sanctioned dog registries.  But the US
does not have any official government recognition of ANY dog registry.

Quote:
>The American Pit Bull Terrier is only registered by privately owned
>businesses that operate as dog registries.  

It is recognized by the UKC (United Kennel Club), which is on the same
footing with the AKC in the eyes of the United States government.  The
UKC just reached it's centennial last year, a few years after the
AKC's.  Both the AKC and the UKC are registered as non profit
organizations.

--Cindy
--

   WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell's Chocolate Deduction CGC CD--Hershe   LABRADORS
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Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by Gary R. Seaman » Tue, 09 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> AM STAFFS VS. PIT BULLS
> The American Staffordshire Terriers original breed name was American
> Bull Terrier.  The name was changed to Staffordshire Terrier (even though
> it has no roots in Staffordshire) in order to gain AKC acceptance, and
> not cause confusion between this breed and the Bull Terrier.  In 1936,
> the AKC promised that it would not recognize the Staffordshire Bull
> Terrier which had gained recognition in England the previous year.  To
> AKCs credit, the breed was not recognized until 1972 (the Staffy Bull).
>...

Oh my god. Where in the hell do you get your information? The APBT
existed as a breed BEFORE the AKC ever decided to accept them under the
name of "American Staff. Terrier". The United Kennel Club recognized the
breed in 1898, while the American Kennel Club only recognized the breed
1935, because of the popularity of "Pete the pup", who was a registered
APBT in the stub books of the UKC. Pete was the first dual registered
APBT/AST.

The primary difference is that APBT's are generally more *game* than an
AST and any reputable breeder of APBT's requires deep gameness as a
prerequisite to breeding. In general, AST breeders breed dogs that
conform to what they believe is a standard and what "appears" tough.
APBT breeders breed "performance" dogs, not "show" dogs (although the
ADBA is probably a better place to find truly gamebred apbt's.)

jeesh.....

 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by rachel col » Wed, 10 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>AM STAFFS VS. PIT BULLS
>The American Staffordshire Terriers original breed name was American
>Bull Terrier.  The name was changed to Staffordshire Terrier (even though
>it has no roots in Staffordshire) in order to gain AKC acceptance, and
>not cause confusion between this breed and the Bull Terrier.  In 1936,
>the AKC promised that it would not recognize the Staffordshire Bull
>Terrier which had gained recognition in England the previous year.  To
>AKCs credit, the breed was not recognized until 1972 (the Staffy Bull).
> This triggered another name change to the Staffordshire Terrier.  The
>breed was now the American Staffordshire Terrier, and hopefully will
>remain so.
>Are we thoroughly confused now!?  What does all of this have to so with
>the American Pit Bull Terrier?  Actuall it has nothing to do with the
>APBT.
>The American Staffordshire Terrier breed is registered with the American
>Kennel Club, the official purebred dog registry of the United States of
>America.  It is also recognized by most of the official registries of
>other countries, with England being one of the exceptions.
>The American Pit Bull Terrier is only registered by privately owned
>businesses that operate as dog registries.  Those businesses have an open
>registry policy, and will register dogs with no history of being
>purebred.  No official registry of any country recognizes the American
>Pit Bull Terrier.  Several years ago the owner of one of the registries
>asked the Canadian Kennel Club to consider the APBT for CKC recognition.
> The CKC sent a delegation down to Kalamazoo, Michigan to inspect the
>records.  After careful scrutiny, the delegation determined thatCKC could
>not recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier because the breed ...is not
>purebred at this time.
>When one person, a business owner, whose livlihood depends upon the
>numbers of dogs his business registers sets all policy for the breeds his
>business registers surely the emphasis is more upon the quantity rather
>that the quality of the dogs.
>I think we can all agree that AKC is not perfect, certainly it is a work
>in progress by the fact that it has members, and santioned clubs whose
>boards are made up of caring and dedicated fanciers of their respective
>breeds, but AKC has the best system of checks and balances because of its
>construct.
>This was supposed to be a comparative of the American Staffordshire
>Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier, but somehow the differences in
>the breeds are really about the differences in the people who have
>control over them, and those persons desires, aspirations, and
>intentions.
>Robin


You are so wrong.
 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by spa.. » Wed, 10 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> > AM STAFFS VS. PIT BULLS
> > The American Staffordshire Terriers original breed name was American
> > Bull Terrier.  The name was changed to Staffordshire Terrier (even though
> > it has no roots in Staffordshire) in order to gain AKC acceptance, and
> > not cause confusion between this breed and the Bull Terrier.  In 1936,
> > the AKC promised that it would not recognize the Staffordshire Bull
> > Terrier which had gained recognition in England the previous year.  To
> > AKCs credit, the breed was not recognized until 1972 (the Staffy Bull).
> >...

> Oh my god. Where in the hell do you get your information? The APBT
> existed as a breed BEFORE the AKC ever decided to accept them under the
> name of "American Staff. Terrier". The United Kennel Club recognized the
> breed in 1898, while the American Kennel Club only recognized the breed
> 1935, because of the popularity of "Pete the pup", who was a registered
> APBT in the stub books of the UKC. Pete was the first dual registered
> APBT/AST.

> The primary difference is that APBT's are generally more *game* than an
> AST and any reputable breeder of APBT's requires deep gameness as a
> prerequisite to breeding. In general, AST breeders breed dogs that
> conform to what they believe is a standard and what "appears" tough.
> APBT breeders breed "performance" dogs, not "show" dogs (although the
> ADBA is probably a better place to find truly gamebred apbt's.)

> jeesh.....

HI

This gells with what I have come to believe as well from reading books
and talking to different people on the newsgroup.   Even with the slight
differences between the pitbull and amstaff  with the pitbull being a
little leggier and an inch or so taller and the amstaff being a bit
shorter and stockier with a blockier head, it is my understanding that
the pitbulls out there unless from proven game lines might not be any
more game than the amstaffs.   And in the beggining according to Stratton
the first Amstaffs produced by Colby were from an  (excellent) stock and
deeply game.

                                      Sparky from Canada

 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by Susan Mudgett aka little gat » Wed, 10 Jul 1996 04:00:00



: breed in 1898, while the American Kennel Club only recognized the breed
: 1935, because of the popularity of "Pete the pup", who was a registered
: APBT in the stub books of the UKC. Pete was the first dual registered
: APBT/AST.

Maybe not. AKC books say that the first registered (American)
Staffordshire Terrier was Wheeler's Black Dinah. It's not clear
whether they refer to actual registration, entry in the stud book, or
whether or not she was dual registered, since I don't know whether she
was UKC registered, though I think it's likely all the early
Staffordshire registrations were for UKC dogs.

Lucaney's Peter (Im not certain of the spelling but that was his
registered name) was one of the first dual APBT/AmStaff dogs, but it
may be an urban legend that he was the very first. He was certainly
the most famous.

In trying to investigate this, I've written to UKC, AKC, and realted
breed clubs. None of my letters were answered.

 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by Lisa K. Bai » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00


: When one person, a business owner, whose livlihood depends upon the
: numbers of dogs his business registers sets all policy for the breeds his
: business registers surely the emphasis is more upon the quantity rather
: that the quality of the dogs.

Wait a minute!! Are you trying to say that with the thousands of odgs AKC
registers each year, many of doubtful ancestry, and the HUGE amount of
money they make from puppy mill registrations that ALC CARES about
"quality", not quantity????

Puh-leeeez! I own AKC reg. dogs, and show in bred and obedience, but I'm
one of the first to admit that AKC is out for as much money as it can
reap, and quality be damned! Very slowly, we are starting to see chang
(for the better), but c'mon, lets face the facts here!

--

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Haleakala PWD's          what they do best, being cute! Also have a look at
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Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by michael p mccullou » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00




Quote:
>You are so wrong.

good argument!

m

michael p mccullough ++++ Klamath Falls OR   # 1.541.884.3278

all moanday, tearsday, wailsday, thumpsday, frightday, shatterday (joyce/FW)
http://www.magick.net/~michael/  http://www.magick.net/~michael/music.html

 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by Robin Coo » Sun, 14 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
> Maybe not. AKC books say that the first registered (American)
> Staffordshire Terrier was Wheeler's Black Dinah. It's not clear
> whether they refer to actual registration, entry in the stud book, or
> whether or not she was dual registered, since I don't know whether she
> was UKC registered, though I think it's likely all the early
> Staffordshire registrations were for UKC dogs.

"The breed first appeared in the AKC club stud book, Vol 53, Aug 1,1936
edition. A dozen stafs were registered that first month. The first name
on the list was that of Wilfred T. Brandon's ***, Farmer's Snuggles Up.
Actually the first registered Staf was Wheeler's Black Dinah AKC#
A-86-066, bred by Edna Flickinger. The first registered male was Tabasco
Dan owned by G.B. Claycomb."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
exerpt from Jackie Fraser's book 'The American Staffordshire Terrier'
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

Am Staffs vs. Pit Bulls

Post by MA » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00




Quote:

>> Maybe not. AKC books say that the first registered (American)
>> Staffordshire Terrier was Wheeler's Black Dinah. It's not clear
>> whether they refer to actual registration, entry in the stud book, or
>> whether or not she was dual registered, since I don't know whether she
>> was UKC registered, though I think it's likely all the early
>> Staffordshire registrations were for UKC dogs.

>"The breed first appeared in the AKC club stud book, Vol 53, Aug 1,1936
>edition. A dozen stafs were registered that first month. The first name
>on the list was that of Wilfred T. Brandon's ***, Farmer's Snuggles Up.
>Actually the first registered Staf was Wheeler's Black Dinah AKC#
>A-86-066, bred by Edna Flickinger. The first registered male was Tabasco
>Dan owned by G.B. Claycomb."

Here's one for you, Robin.  Do you know how Wheeler's Black Dinah
was bred?  Didn't think so.

Have you ever heard of Earl Tudour?

Mr. Tudour was a very famous dogman in the midwest during the first
half of this century.  When I say dogman, I mean he fought, tested,
and bred gamedogs, aka pit bulls.  Tudour bred for and tested for
gamness, first and foremost...not looks.  And that is not gameness
in the fast and loose sense as you seem to think it is but the
"real deal" gameness which can be tested for only one way.

Wheeler's Black Dinah was line bred off of Tudour's Black King.

Tudour would not have line bred Black King if he couldn't "go".

That my dear, is the heritage of the AmStaff...but don't take my
word for it, look it up yourself.

Hope this helps,
MAC

http://www.moonsgarden.com/~mbur/apbt.html