Old roses in Zone 4

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Old roses in Zone 4

Post by TC » Fri, 22 May 1998 04:00:00



I'm in zone 4 and want to try growing some of the
old Garden roses, like the Gallicas, Bourbons, and
maybe even the Hybrid Perpetuals, that bloom on
year-old wood.  (Do HPs bloom on year-old wood?)

My fear is that with my winters, the plants will
experience substantial dieback and thus won't have
enough canes to bloom well in Spring.  The reason
I think this might happen is it happens with my
Hybrid Teas--they die down to about 5 inches, which
is okay because they bloom on new wood.

Does anyone know from experience how the old roses
fare in Zone 4?  How much healthy cane is left
after winter if the rose is only mounded with 8
inches of soil?  Is there still a display in Spring?

Thanks!
TC

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by Ryck Birc » Fri, 22 May 1998 04:00:00


TC:

Most of the once bloomers--in particular: the Gallicas, Albas, Mosses
and Centifolias--should be fine for zone 4.  They will happily grow to
real shrub-sized plants.  The Bourbons are very questionable for zone
4.  You might try Louise Odier and Bourbon Queen.  Put them in a
sheltered area and see what happens.  LB will bloom on new wood and is
remontant.  BQ is weakly remontant but reputedly among the hardiest of
the class.  Hybrid perpetuals--hmm, again, borderline.  John Hopper is
said to be quite hardy and there is the excellent Baronne Prevost which
is again quite hardy (for the class) and very remontant and exquisitely
beautiful, fragrant, etc.  I would be inclined to focus on any of the R.
rugosa hybrids in your case.  There were a fair number of F1 hybrids
between the species and various HPs and other old garden roses.  Most
are at least somewhat remontant and generally are fragrant and some will
even give you hips.  The flowers, while perhaps not in the highest
degree of old-rose style perfection, are certainly different from the HT
bud look.

Whatever you do, try your damnedest to get own-root roses--not budded
plants--for anything that you have a question about as far as
hardiness.  If things are cut to the ground, better the chance to spring
anew from their own roots.

If you are just dying to have really old, and remontant roses, the roses
known by the various class names, Portland roses, Damask Perpetuals,
Portland Damasks, are probably your best general bet--this is not to say
that there won't be some damage but I am a firm believer in pushing the
envelope!.  The Portland Rose, a.k.a., the Duchess of Portland, should
make it and is viewed as the progenitor of the class.  Some of the
remontant moss roses are in fact basically mossy Portlands and should
certainly be checked out--Salet and Mousseline/Alfred Demas would be
worth a try.  Unfortunately, the Portlands are among the roses with the
fewest representatives coming down to us in these latter days...

Also, look at the hardy roses bred by the Canadians--the Morden,
Parkland and Explorer series are all very hardy and well worth the look
see!

Best wishes,
Ryck

Quote:

> I'm in zone 4 and want to try growing some of the
> old garden roses, like the Gallicas, Bourbons, and
> maybe even the Hybrid Perpetuals, that bloom on
> year-old wood.  (Do HPs bloom on year-old wood?)

> My fear is that with my winters, the plants will
> experience substantial dieback and thus won't have
> enough canes to bloom well in Spring.  The reason
> I think this might happen is it happens with my
> Hybrid Teas--they die down to about 5 inches, which
> is okay because they bloom on new wood.

> Does anyone know from experience how the old roses
> fare in Zone 4?  How much healthy cane is left
> after winter if the rose is only mounded with 8
> inches of soil?  Is there still a display in Spring?

> Thanks!
> TC

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by John Woodwor » Sat, 23 May 1998 04:00:00


I', in zone 4a and grow OGRs, species and hardy shrubs. On the
whole, they're pretty sturdy, though only a few will make it through
a tough winter without any cane dieback. I strongly recommend you
get the books _Hardy Roses_ and Roses for the North_. The latter is
from the University of Minnesota. They studied many OGRs at the
Landscape Arboretum for hardiness, with the goal of developing a new
line of hardy shrubs for cold climates.

Quote:

> I'm in zone 4 and want to try growing some of the
> old garden roses, like the Gallicas,

They'll do okay.

Quote:
> Bourbons,

Very iffy.

Quote:
> and
> maybe even the Hybrid Perpetuals, that bloom on
> year-old wood.

Again, iffy, in zone 4. They manage a nice bloom in the late summer,
but you can count on major cane loss every few years.

Albas and Damasks are the hardiest. Centifolias and some Moss
approach the. Forget Chinas, Teas and Noisettes. OGRs with
spinosissima and eglanteria heritage also do well.

Quote:
> Does anyone know from experience how the old roses
> fare in Zone 4?  How much healthy cane is left
> after winter if the rose is only mounded with 8
> inches of soil?  Is there still a display in Spring?

Mine are performing now. I provide no protection to my roses.

--

John

"May you live to be a hundred years with one extra to repent."

                                              -- an old Irish toast

.

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by TC » Sat, 23 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

> I', in zone 4a and grow OGRs, species and hardy shrubs. On the
> whole, they're pretty sturdy, though only a few will make it through
> a tough winter without any cane dieback.

Could you tell me which ones these are?

Thank you,
TC

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by John Woodwor » Mon, 25 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


> > I', in zone 4a and grow OGRs, species and hardy shrubs. On the
> > whole, they're pretty sturdy, though only a few will make it through
> > a tough winter without any cane dieback.

> Could you tell me which ones these are?

The toughest from my garden:

Alba smei-plena
Madame Plantier
Blush Damask
Rosa gallica versicolor
Banshee
Rose de Rescht
Tuscany Superb
A found gallica.

Rosa Rugosa
Agnes
Therese Bugnet
Robusta
Rosarie de l"Hay
Hansa
Double Blanc de Coubert
Sit Thomas Lipton

Henry Kelsey
William Baffin
Cuthbert Grant
John Davis
John Franklin
Morden Blush

Carefree Delight
Bonica (dies, but bounces back)
Mary Rose
Applejack
Lillian Gibson

Rosa ***iana
Rosa glauca

I've planted others and lost them to winter. It's fun to experiment.

There are many others. This spring I've added Goldbusch and Fruhlinsgold
(I need yellows). I intend to add J.P. Connell, Harison's Yellow, Charles
de Mills and perhaps Cardinal de Riechlieu (sp?) this month.

There are many others you can plant, the lists in _Roses for the North_
are pretty extensive.

---

John

pro meo lingua graeca est...

.

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by TC » Mon, 25 May 1998 04:00:00


Thanks for this information.  It is very helpful.

TC

gratis tibi...

Quote:



> > > I', in zone 4a and grow OGRs, species and hardy shrubs. On the
> > > whole, they're pretty sturdy, though only a few will make it through
> > > a tough winter without any cane dieback.

> > Could you tell me which ones these are?

> The toughest from my garden:

> Alba smei-plena
> Madame Plantier
> Blush Damask
> Rosa gallica versicolor
> Banshee
> Rose de Rescht
> Tuscany Superb
> A found gallica.

> Rosa Rugosa
> Agnes
> Therese Bugnet
> Robusta
> Rosarie de l"Hay
> Hansa
> Double Blanc de Coubert
> Sit Thomas Lipton

> Henry Kelsey
> William Baffin
> Cuthbert Grant
> John Davis
> John Franklin
> Morden Blush

> Carefree Delight
> Bonica (dies, but bounces back)
> Mary Rose
> Applejack
> Lillian Gibson

> Rosa ***iana
> Rosa glauca

> I've planted others and lost them to winter. It's fun to experiment.

> There are many others. This spring I've added Goldbusch and Fruhlinsgold
> (I need yellows). I intend to add J.P. Connell, Harison's Yellow, Charles
> de Mills and perhaps Cardinal de Riechlieu (sp?) this month.

> There are many others you can plant, the lists in _Roses for the North_
> are pretty extensive.

> ---

> John

> pro meo lingua graeca est...

> .

> Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by Steven Cange » Mon, 25 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

> The toughest from my garden:
> Blush Damask
...
> Banshee

I don't know these two.  What can you tell me?

--
Steven Cangemi
Annandale-on-Hudson, New York
USDA Zone 5

 
 
 

Old roses in Zone 4

Post by John Woodwor » Tue, 26 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:



> > The toughest from my garden:

> > Blush Damask
> ...
> > Banshee

> I don't know these two.  What can you tell me?

Blush Damask is a five footer for me. Got it as a cutting from a friend.
Nice smell, uniform, pale pink. About half the canes have minor tip
dieback. Aphids love it and are feasting right now. It gets ragged by
summer's end. There are some hips.

Banshee is a very vigorous Damask. Silvery pink on reverse, darker
inside. Color very much like Koenigan Von Danemark.VERY fragrant.
Suckers a lot. In my previous house it grew to six feet in three years
(and it now eight), but the sucker I planted in my new place is having
trouble making it to five. The wind snaps the larger canes at the base.
Nice dark red hips in the fall. Some purplish color to the leaves at
that time. I sent a sucker to Suzanne. If you like, I can send one to
you this fall. Very hardy: it has had no dieback-ever- in all the years
I've been growing it.

--
---

John

pro meo lingua graeca est...

.

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.