Building an arbor

Description of your first forum.

Building an arbor

Post by Mister » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00



We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
to use for materials. Can you use pressure treated wood around things
you might eat? Does anyone have an opinion on this and some suggestions
on what we should use.  Thank you.
 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by m& » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Pressure treated wood is treated with copper arsenate.  Arsenic. Studies have
shown swing and play sets made with this material has  systemically entered
through the skin of young children and after *** testing found that there were
measurable levels of arsenic (they called them moderate) in the ***.  So, if
you want to use it, feel free.  A far better system IMO for grapes is very
inexpensive and covered by grapes so will not look awful.  It is the use of
cedar wood, build an arbor shape. Then cover it with cattle fencing.  You can
either find it for free (re bar thicker material but a grid none the less) which
you ask the builders if you can have.  There are rolls of it everywhere they are
building new slab foundation homes.  However, you can buy 50 foot by 4foot high
rolls of this cattle fencing for about 30 dollars.  It is galvanized steel 6
inch mesh.  Wrap that from one bottom end of the "box" you built with cedar, up
and over to the other side and staple or nail it down.  It is very sturdy if you
only make the top no more than a 6 foot span for the fencing or re bar mesh to
cover.  Fencing is much lighter, FYI.

Grapes take about two years to fruit, and you will have to prune them
judiciously.

Best of luck and if I didn't explain what I mean, let me know and I will try
again.

victoria

Quote:

>We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
>to use for materials. Can you use pressure treated wood around things
>you might eat? Does anyone have an opinion on this and some suggestions
>on what we should use.  Thank you.

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by Allan&Teresa Widne » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Glad Victoria made us aware of the pressure-treated lumber problem in her
post.  I, for one, did not know this.
Cedar is a rot-resistant wood, when exposed.  Another excellent wood for
outdoors, untreated use is bald cypress.  No untreated woods should be in
ground - best dig about twice as wide a hole as your post needs, tamp dry
concrete mix into the bottom of the hole, get your post set, straightened,
all of that, then pour dry concrete mix in around, tamping it very firmly as
you go, until it is filled to grade.  Over the next few weeks, ground
moisture will set it as concrete.  (Built a couple fences while working for
this landscape company, too.  Worst job I ever had, half my co-workers were
one sort of criminal or the other, and the owner treated us all like dirt -
but I sure learned a lot about proper landscape construction methods!)

Allan

Quote:

>We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
>to use for materials. Can you use pressure treated wood around things
>you might eat? Does anyone have an opinion on this and some suggestions
>on what we should use.  Thank you.

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by Tom Roberts » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

>No untreated woods should be in
>ground - best dig about twice as wide a hole as your post needs, tamp dry
>concrete mix into the bottom of the hole, get your post set, straightened,
>all of that, then pour dry concrete mix in around, tamping it very firmly as
>you go, until it is filled to grade.  Over the next few weeks, ground
>moisture will set it as concrete.

Why is this better than just mixing it with water immediately after
filling the hole with concrete mix?    
 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by wvrite » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


It requires very heavy timbers eventually.  I have a couple that are well
over 100 years old and they are built of locust wood.  By now they look
execrable, and they require some repair once in a while, but they still hold
the grapes up where the robbers can't get them.  One of my grapevines was
trained on a fence around the herb Garden (lawn when I got the place) and
the single vine spreads 10 feet one direction and 18 feet in the other.  It
looks terrific, but last year the weight started to take the fence right
down, even with careful pruning and thinning.  The fence is 6 feet high and
built on 6X6 timbers and 2X4 cross pieces.  It's amazing how big and heavy
grapes get.
Quote:

>We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
>to use for materials.

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by Beverle » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


I've heard not to set wooden posts into the ground with concrete. Concrete
hold moisture and moisture rots wood. My old fence is slowly failing down
because it is rotted where the concrete begins. Our deck was put directly
into the ground no concrete. I'm not a builder just a gardener.

Bev
The Potting Shed
http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm


Quote:
>Glad Victoria made us aware of the pressure-treated lumber problem in her
>post.  I, for one, did not know this.
>Cedar is a rot-resistant wood, when exposed.  Another excellent wood for
>outdoors, untreated use is bald cypress.  No untreated woods should be in
>ground - best dig about twice as wide a hole as your post needs, tamp dry
>concrete mix into the bottom of the hole, get your post set, straightened,
>all of that, then pour dry concrete mix in around, tamping it very firmly
as
>you go, until it is filled to grade.  Over the next few weeks, ground
>moisture will set it as concrete.  (Built a couple fences while working for
>this landscape company, too.  Worst job I ever had, half my co-workers were
>one sort of criminal or the other, and the owner treated us all like dirt -
>but I sure learned a lot about proper landscape construction methods!)

>Allan


>>We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
>>to use for materials. Can you use pressure treated wood around things
>>you might eat? Does anyone have an opinion on this and some suggestions
>>on what we should use.  Thank you.

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by Allan&Teresa Widne » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Mostly because you don't need to set stakes and forms to hold your post
upright until the concrete sets.  Also, with everything tamped in good and
solid, there shouldn't be any subsidence as the concrete cures.

Allan

Quote:

>Why is this better than just mixing it with water immediately after
>filling the hole with concrete mix?

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by Allan&Teresa Widne » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Hmm - concrete does not hold water, but if you have the top of the concrete
just below grade, it does create a damp pocket.  Concrete should come to
just above grade, so water can't pocket there.  I have several posts that
are not rotten at the base, because whoever put them in about thirty years
ago brought the concrete to above the soil line.

Allan

Quote:

>I've heard not to set wooden posts into the ground with concrete. Concrete
>hold moisture and moisture rots wood. My old fence is slowly failing down
>because it is rotted where the concrete begins. Our deck was put directly
>into the ground no concrete. I'm not a builder just a gardener.

>Bev
>The Potting Shed

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by lcroz.. » Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:00:00


I saw in a magazine setting up an arbor (or something like that)  using
the big, 4", black plastic drain pipe w/ gravel in it, o help w/
drainage.  The legs of the project go down into the pipe w/ thee gravel
around it to secure & add draiage
 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by C. A. Owen » Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
> to use for materials. Can you use pressure treated wood around things
> you might eat? Does anyone have an opinion on this and some suggestions
> on what we should use.  Thank you.

I use PT wood around the food crops all the time, and have for years.
Even ran my own little test, and found no leaching.

Chris Owens

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by m& » Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:00:00


My entire fence, posts and all is made up of cedar.  Posts are 1 foot in the
ground surrounded by concrete.  The fence is guaranteed for 15 years.  If you do
it properly, cedar is rot resistant even IN holes IN concrete as posts.  NO, it
will not last as long as CCA, but do you actually want something which is so
chemically treated that nature cannot take it's course?  It's cheaper to replace
wood every 10 years than to buy all CCA treated wood once in 25 years.

Victoria

On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:06:17 -0500, "Allan&Teresa Widner"

Quote:

>Glad Victoria made us aware of the pressure-treated lumber problem in her
>post.  I, for one, did not know this.
>Cedar is a rot-resistant wood, when exposed.  Another excellent wood for
>outdoors, untreated use is bald cypress.  No untreated woods should be in
>ground - best dig about twice as wide a hole as your post needs, tamp dry
>concrete mix into the bottom of the hole, get your post set, straightened,
>all of that, then pour dry concrete mix in around, tamping it very firmly as
>you go, until it is filled to grade.  Over the next few weeks, ground
>moisture will set it as concrete.  (Built a couple fences while working for
>this landscape company, too.  Worst job I ever had, half my co-workers were
>one sort of criminal or the other, and the owner treated us all like dirt -
>but I sure learned a lot about proper landscape construction methods!)

>Allan


>>We are interested in building an arbor for grapes. Our problem is what
>>to use for materials. Can you use pressure treated wood around things
>>you might eat? Does anyone have an opinion on this and some suggestions
>>on what we should use.  Thank you.

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by m& » Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:00:00


On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:03:25 -0500, "Allan&Teresa Widner"

Quote:

>Hmm - concrete does not hold water, but if you have the top of the concrete
>just below grade, it does create a damp pocket.  Concrete should come to
>just above grade, so water can't pocket there.  I have several posts that
>are not rotten at the base, because whoever put them in about thirty years
>ago brought the concrete to above the soil line.

>Allan

Thirty years ago?  That is quite a long time before wood rots in concrete,
feathered up and away, or not!  Is it CCA or cedar?  If my fence posts last 30
years, it pays for itself ten times over.  But only because I will never put CCA
wood into the soil.
victoria
 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by Allan&Teresa Widne » Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Good old fashioned kreosote.  Yuck!  The posts are in bad shape, but
throughout the wood, not just at the base.  And it still holds up.  The
bases finally have heaved enough that the fence is a bit crooked, but it was
a good fence for a very long time.  These posts had new wire fencing put on
them at least twice.

Allan


Quote:

>Thirty years ago?  That is quite a long time before wood rots in concrete,
>feathered up and away, or not!  Is it CCA or cedar?  If my fence posts last
30
>years, it pays for itself ten times over.  But only because I will never
put CCA
>wood into the soil.
>victoria

 
 
 

Building an arbor

Post by m& » Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:00:00


Ahhh, smellasote!  Well, we know a lot more now than they did 30 years ago about
kreosote.  I think the best fence is made of cedar pickets, with galvanized
posts in concrete.  Change out the pickets when necessary, have a good mud board
to protect the bottoms of the pickets, and the posts last lifetimes.  Next
house, next house.  I'm a livin and a learnin!

V

On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:47:43 -0500, "Allan&Teresa Widner"

Quote:

>Good old fashioned kreosote.  Yuck!  The posts are in bad shape, but
>throughout the wood, not just at the base.  And it still holds up.  The
>bases finally have heaved enough that the fence is a bit crooked, but it was
>a good fence for a very long time.  These posts had new wire fencing put on
>them at least twice.

>Allan



>>Thirty years ago?  That is quite a long time before wood rots in concrete,
>>feathered up and away, or not!  Is it CCA or cedar?  If my fence posts last
>30
>>years, it pays for itself ten times over.  But only because I will never
>put CCA
>>wood into the soil.
>>victoria