is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

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is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Laz » Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:18:35



 Hi,

 i am looking at putting in a bore and they did
 a test on an old soak/well in the Garden
 and it had 1550 ppm dissolved salt.

 we have palms, rose, camelias, grass, ferns

 is this salt level a problem ?

is is a sandy soil

 larry

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Ted » Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:32:27




Quote:
> Hi,

> i am looking at putting in a bore

A bore? What is this?

 and they did

Quote:
> a test on an old soak/well in the garden
> and it had 1550 ppm dissolved salt.

> we have palms, rose, camelias, grass, ferns

> is this salt level a problem ?

>is is a sandy soil

> larry

Larry, I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

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is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Jenny » Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:15:29



Quote:
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:18:35 +0800, "Laz"


Quote:

> > Hi,> > i am looking at putting in a bore

> A bore? What is this?

As in drilling a hole in the ground to get at the water table
below.............

Quote:
> > a test on an old soak/well in the garden
> > and it had 1550 ppm dissolved salt.
> >> > we have palms, rose, camelias, grass, ferns
> >this salt level a problem ?
> >> >is is a sandy soil
> >> > larry

> Larry, I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Sounds as if Larry is close to either the sea or a salt
mine.........................
Jenny :~))
 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by j del c » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:27:36


Quote:



> > Hi,

> > i am looking at putting in a bore

> A bore? What is this?

It's a well.

J. Del Col

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Ted » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:11:00


Quote:



>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:18:35 +0800, "Laz"


>> > Hi,> > i am looking at putting in a bore

>> A bore? What is this?

>As in drilling a hole in the ground to get at the water table
>below.............

Oh okay, thanx.

Quote:

>> > a test on an old soak/well in the garden
>> > and it had 1550 ppm dissolved salt.
>> >> > we have palms, rose, camelias, grass, ferns
>> >this salt level a problem ?
>> >> >is is a sandy soil
>> >> > larry

>> Larry, I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

>Sounds as if Larry is close to either the sea or a salt
>mine.........................
>Jenny :~))

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is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Nick Maclar » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:33:51



Quote:



>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:18:35 +0800, "Laz"


>> > Hi,> > i am looking at putting in a bore

>> A bore? What is this?

>As in drilling a hole in the ground to get at the water table
>below.............

As distinct from some of the threads around ....

Quote:
>> > a test on an old soak/well in the garden
>> > and it had 1550 ppm dissolved salt.
>> >> > we have palms, rose, camelias, grass, ferns
>> >this salt level a problem ?
>> >> >is is a sandy soil

>> Larry, I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

>Sounds as if Larry is close to either the sea or a salt
>mine.........................

Yes, it does, but he is posting from Australia :-)  At least this
is an improvement on the damn zones.

In the UK and the Netherlands, the normal cause of high salt is
that you have extracted so much ground water that the sea is
seeping in, and the salts are (modern) sea salts.  At 1500 ppm,
my guess is that most plants would be OK, though not the more
delicate ones like epiphytes and peat bog ones.

In an arid area, you can get accumulation of salts in ground
water, because the annual rainfall is not enough to flush the
ground water through.  And the accumulated salts can be many
things, some of which are much more toxic than sea salt.  So it
partly depends on the salts.

And, worse, there is little natural rainfall to prevent the salts
from the bore water accumulating in the soil near the surface.
This is one of the main reasons for the reduction of the fertility
of the Fertile Crescent in historical times.

But I should guess that isn't a problem to most roses and grasses,
though it probably will be to camellias and ferns.  And palms vary,
with the date palm being completely unconcerned by MUCH higher
salt concentrations than that!

All in all, this is not the sort of thing that we see in the UK,
and (for example) my knowledge is almost entirely theoretical.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.

Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by John Rile » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:08:49




Quote:
> Hi,

> i am looking at putting in a bore and they did
> a test on an old soak/well in the garden
> and it had 1550 ppm dissolved salt.

> we have palms, rose, camelias, grass, ferns

> is this salt level a problem ?

>is is a sandy soil

I think the WHO ideal standard for drinking water is 500ppm tds.

According to my books and my calculations (this is where the worry
comes :) you should be OK with many plants at this level of tds.

You should avoid things like onions, camelias, dahlias, fuchsia, lily,
primula, rose, Washingtonia palms and a number of other things.

I see you are growing some of these. Best to use other water here.

When you do water, avoid fine spray on a windy day. Drip irrigation is
perhaps best. The problem will be a reduction in growth.

Regards       John Riley    West Oz

ps    The sea is about 30,000 ppm tds (total dissolved solids)

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by John Rile » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:34:53



Quote:
>As distinct from some of the threads around ....

But then no-one forces you to read 'em  :)

Quote:
>In the UK and the Netherlands, the normal cause of high salt is
>that you have extracted so much ground water that the sea is
>seeping in, and the salts are (modern) sea salts.  At 1500 ppm,
>my guess is that most plants would be OK, though not the more
>delicate ones like epiphytes and peat bog ones.

I have a list (inluding Rosa spp) that can expect a 25% growth
reduction with irrigation water with 1152 ppm tds.

Quote:
>In an arid area, you can get accumulation of salts in ground
>water, because the annual rainfall is not enough to flush the
>ground water through.  And the accumulated salts can be many
>things, some of which are much more toxic than sea salt.  So it
>partly depends on the salts.

Sea salt is toxic enough, thank you very much  :)

Quote:
>And, worse, there is little natural rainfall to prevent the salts
>from the bore water accumulating in the soil near the surface.
>This is one of the main reasons for the reduction of the fertility
>of the Fertile Crescent in historical times.

In many parts of Oz, salinisation comes from the millions of years of
sea spray blowing over the land and lodging in the soil between the
topsoil and the water table. Problems occur when vegetation cover of
the land is changed and the water table rises.

Quote:
>But I should guess that isn't a problem to most roses

Not according to my list, but then there may be some very sensitive
varieties.

Regards      John Riley       West Oz

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Nick Maclar » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:51:19




Quote:

>>In the UK and the Netherlands, the normal cause of high salt is
>>that you have extracted so much ground water that the sea is
>>seeping in, and the salts are (modern) sea salts.  At 1500 ppm,
>>my guess is that most plants would be OK, though not the more
>>delicate ones like epiphytes and peat bog ones.

>I have a list (inluding Rosa spp) that can expect a 25% growth
>reduction with irrigation water with 1152 ppm tds.

Oh, yes, I can believe that.  But there are plenty of roses that
will grow close to the west coast of the UK, and can expect salt
showers fairly regularly.  They may not LIKE it, but they aren't
the most sensitive plants and won't usually drop dead from a
small amount of salt.

Quote:
>>And, worse, there is little natural rainfall to prevent the salts
>>from the bore water accumulating in the soil near the surface.
>>This is one of the main reasons for the reduction of the fertility
>>of the Fertile Crescent in historical times.

>In many parts of Oz, salinisation comes from the millions of years of
>sea spray blowing over the land and lodging in the soil between the
>topsoil and the water table. Problems occur when vegetation cover of
>the land is changed and the water table rises.

Quite.  But everywhere in the UK, the evaporation is less than the
rainfall, and there are millions of years of the converse effect!

Quote:
>>But I should guess that isn't a problem to most roses

>Not according to my list, but then there may be some very sensitive
>varieties.

Very likely.  But a 25% growth reduction with 1150 ppm isn't extreme
sensitivity, anyway.  There are plants that will drop dead from a
single watering of that concentration.

And Rosa rugosa is actively salt-tolerant, as I suspect are at least
a couple of the native British roses, given where I have seen them
growing.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.

Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Ted » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:41:15



Quote:




>>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:18:35 +0800, "Laz"


>>> > Hi,> > i am looking at putting in a bore

>>> A bore? What is this?

>>As in drilling a hole in the ground to get at the water table
>>below.............

>As distinct from some of the threads around ....

Hey, Nick, I was going to say some of the regular posters but I
restrained myself ... <g>

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is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by John Rile » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:31:38



Quote:



>>>In the UK and the Netherlands, the normal cause of high salt is
>>>that you have extracted so much ground water that the sea is
>>>seeping in, and the salts are (modern) sea salts.  At 1500 ppm,
>>>my guess is that most plants would be OK, though not the more
>>>delicate ones like epiphytes and peat bog ones.

>>I have a list (inluding Rosa spp) that can expect a 25% growth
>>reduction with irrigation water with 1152 ppm tds.

>Oh, yes, I can believe that.  But there are plenty of roses that
>will grow close to the west coast of the UK, and can expect salt
>showers fairly regularly.  

I wonder if there is much difference between salty water on the leaves
and salty water around the roots.
We have some very dry winds that will burn sensitive leaves if there
is even a hint of salt in the irrigation water.

Quote:
>They may not LIKE it, but they aren't
>the most sensitive plants and won't usually drop dead from a
>small amount of salt.

Not being a "rosarian" in any sense, I wonder how they would cope with
1500 ppm tds in the soil water. No rain for six months (stop drooling,
Nick  :)

Quote:
>>>And, worse, there is little natural rainfall to prevent the salts
>>>from the bore water accumulating in the soil near the surface.
>>>This is one of the main reasons for the reduction of the fertility
>>>of the Fertile Crescent in historical times.

>>In many parts of Oz, salinisation comes from the millions of years of
>>sea spray blowing over the land and lodging in the soil between the
>>topsoil and the water table. Problems occur when vegetation cover of
>>the land is changed and the water table rises.

>Quite.  But everywhere in the UK, the evaporation is less than the
>rainfall, and there are millions of years of the converse effect!

I hope you realise how jealous us desiccated West Ozzies are of you.
We look like having total sprinkler bans, and even restrictions on use
of bore water, this Summer.

Quote:
>>>But I should guess that isn't a problem to most roses

>>Not according to my list, but then there may be some very sensitive
>>varieties.

>Very likely.  But a 25% growth reduction with 1150 ppm isn't extreme
>sensitivity, anyway.  There are plants that will drop dead from a
>single watering of that concentration.

I suspect some ferns? Perhaps plants with poorly developed root
systems?  Just surmising.

Quote:
>And Rosa rugosa is actively salt-tolerant, as I suspect are at least
>a couple of the native British roses, given where I have seen them
>growing.

Regards        John Riley       West Oz
 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Tom » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:23:15


On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:08:49 +0800, John Riley

Quote:

>Washingtonia palms

They are NOT salt sensiive !
 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by John Rile » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:40:49


Quote:

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:08:49 +0800, John Riley

>>Washingtonia palms

>They are NOT salt sensiive !

Fair enough. You have irrigated them with saline water of more than
3000 to 4000 muS/cm?

My book claims a 25% reduction in growth of Washingtonia robusta with
an EC of a saturation extract of the growing medium of 3 - 4 dS/m. It
thus classifies it as "sensitive".

Regards        John Riley     West Oz

 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by joeva » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:14:58


On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:40:49 +0800, John Riley

Quote:


>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:08:49 +0800, John Riley

>>>Washingtonia palms

>>They are NOT salt sensiive !

>Fair enough. You have irrigated them with saline water of more than
>3000 to 4000 muS/cm?

>My book claims a 25% reduction in growth of Washingtonia robusta with
>an EC of a saturation extract of the growing medium of 3 - 4 dS/m. It
>thus classifies it as "sensitive".

>Regards        John Riley     West Oz

When I saw the header for this message I at first thought someone was
worried if a boring person could be hurt by too much salt. :o)
Oh well so much for quick impressions.
 
 
 

is 1550 ppm of dissolved salt too high for a bore ?

Post by Tom » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:30:34


On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:40:49 +0800, John Riley

Quote:

>My book

I manage a population of over 2000 mature W. robusta. W. filifera is
native to my home. I have visited and tested soils form the native
stands of robusta. I don't have nor do I need your book to learn they
are NOT salt sensitive! Most current manuals list Washingtonia species
as moderate in terms of salt tolerance. About the same as P.
canariensis, which have been affected, by some accounts, in AUS by the
dropping of salt water tables.