Questions, questions, questions

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Questions, questions, questions

Post by Miche » Sun, 02 Mar 2003 09:36:39



Please bear in mind as you read this that we are just short of the 4th
anniversary of Zamboni's joining my family.  This means that he is at
least 5 years old, and I expect that he is actually quite a bit older.

This bout of stasis is different from the usual.  He does not have a
blockage in the usual spot.  This is good in that my surgery-loving
vet isn't tempted to go in and try to fix things, but bad in that I
don't really know what is going on.

I suspect, because Tika also had a couple of bad days earlier this
week, that there must have been something in the veggies on Monday
night that I missed. I think Tika has been sick but once in the 5
years that she has been with me.  She's just hunky-dory now, but then
she has a MUCH stronger constitution than my dear Big Z.

Anyway, I suppose with Zamboni that if this isn't the usual, then I
can't expect recovery in the usual time frame... I stocked up on
cisapride and sub-cu fluids while at the vet's today, plus I have an
excellent supply of metocopramide.  I'm working on getting some
simethicone specially compounded in a decent flavour -- probably
alfalfa flavor, but if that's too expensive, then I might go for
banana-cream.  We'll continue with our thrice daily doses of meds and
once daily sub-cu fluids until something happens.  I expect that I
will be instructed to force feed as well if we don't see action soon.

Anyway, something that is really bothering me is that Zamboni has been
getting thinner.  Much to my surprise, he has NOT lost weight.  He is
actually HEAVIER than the last time we were in.  Dr. Linda reckons
that he is losing muscle mass.  This is odd, because except for during
these bouts of stasis, he is a very active bunny with a good appetite.
 We speculated that this might be due to ageing.

(Actually, I've noticed the same with Tika, too.  No weight loss, but
I think she's thinner.)

I'm wondering if it's time either to change their diets or to add
supplements of some sort, such as spirulina.  Anybody out there have
any ideas?

Tibs, btw, is just the shape I like a bunny to be.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is if I want my bunnies to add mass but not
weight, what does one do?  I don't think that taking them to the gym
with me will help them!  (Though it sure is helping me!!!)

I'd better get going.  Please keep those poop vibes coming.  Both my
vet and I are very worried about my Big Boy.

Michele, Tibs, Tika, Zamboni, Todd, Maxi, and Mandi

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Arlette & Coco » Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:21:32


Hi Michele,
Gee, sure nice to see you around, I know there are a few people here who
would love to talk to you about your "Cow poop" bunny...like Marri for one,
ANYWAY...

I think what your describing is aging. I've noticed with my old boy Cocoa,
that he looks like his bunny suit as gotten to big. No, he is the same
weight, but his skin is sagging with gravity, not unlike my 'behind' :) That
seems to make him look skinnier from the top. That is my observation.

Cocoa is going on nine this August and he is in top shape as far as I can
tell. I think older buns do lose muscle, but then, I think they would lose
weight, since muscle weighs more than fat <thinking out loud> Anyway, hope
that helps.

I hope our little Zamster is feeling better.

--
God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in spirit
Need a vet? Click here
http://charm.air.on.ca/raytec/RabbitVetsMain.htm
There is no blessing from God so sweet as having
two chocolate coloured bunnies melting in your lap
in the warm morning sun.

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Nona » Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:51:31


Well, I sure have been thinking about your Zamboni, Michele, but I'm not
sure it's yielded any apreciable results.

'Course, I do not know what has caused his present bout of tummy
troubles, but I sure do hope he's pooping soon.

As for his weight -- muscle is notoriously heavier than fat -- so if he
is thinner but heavier, could it just be his increased exercise?  Maybe
your boy is simply fit (like you, girl!)

Wishing all of you well,

Nona

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Professor Sparkl » Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:00:56


Please read this.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

My best

Professor & The 2

Quote:

> This bout of stasis is different from the usual.  He does not have a
> blockage in the usual spot.  This is good in that my surgery-loving
> vet isn't tempted to go in and try to fix things, but bad in that I
> don't really know what is going on.

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Arlette & Coco » Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:00:30


Gee Michele,
I was not here for a day, and there you show up. I was thinking about you
and how Zamboni was doing. I hope he is feeling better soon.

--
God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in spirit
Need a vet? Click here
http://charm.air.on.ca/raytec/RabbitVetsMain.htm
There is no blessing from God so sweet as having
two chocolate coloured bunnies melting in your lap
in the warm morning sun.

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Freddism » Mon, 03 Mar 2003 08:49:04


Healing vibes for the Zamboni bunn.

We hope that he is doing better soon.

Sugar & Mary

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Michele Satanov » Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:07:59


Dear Professor,

I apologize if this comes off as being a little testy, and I realize that
you are new since I used to post regularly here, but I get just a bit
annoyed sometimes when people seem to think that I don't know what I'm doing
with my Big Bunny.

I am intimately familiar with Dana Krempel's article.  Please read this,
from the article:

"A rabbit's intestine can become static for a variety of reasons, including
(1) stress, (2) dehydration, (3) pain from another underlying disorder or
illness (such as gas, molar spurs, bladder problems or infection) (4) an
intestinal blockage or, most commonly, (5) insufficient dietary crude fiber
(which is why unlimited grass hay is so essential in the rabbit diet). "

You will note that she does not mention a genetic condition which causes
ongoing poor motility in the intestines.  Zamboni's is not a usual case of
ileus.  He has a chronic condition without a cure which, in his case, causes
his poops to be large, wet, and misshapen, and which leads to frequent bouts
of ileus..  We (my vet and I) fear that this is a condition that worsens
with time as the repeated bouts of stasis gum up his already compromised
system even more.  I shudder to think of the adhesions he likely has in his
intestines.

My very rabbit-savvy vet and I have been dealing with this for 4 years now.
We have both been in touch with Susan Smith, who is a professor of nutrition
and who has spent years studying these particular rabbits.  We are open to
new infomation about this condition, but I'm not sure that there is much
more out there right now.  But the bottom line is, we know this rabbit well.
We know when he's in just a bit of trouble and when he is really ill.

I don't know if you were reacting to my comments about my vet and her love
of the knife, but I assure you, as Dana Krempels makes clear in her article,
that this would be a last resort.  There might come a time when Zamboni just
won't respond to the standard ileus protocol and WILL require surgery.
Fortunately, this wasn't it, though he sure scared me with his new symptoms.

(I might add here that another of my bunnies, Tibs, once had a complete
blockage due to a hairball, and she is still with me today because Dr. Linda
knew to operate on her right away.  Because Tibs was completely blocked --
no gas passing AT ALL -- she would not have survived had we tried more
conservative treatments first.  I trust this woman's judgement, and I also
trust that as much as she enjoys doing surgery, and as curious as she is to
get inside of Zamboni to find out just what is going on, she would NEVER
operate on my boy unnecessarily.)

I don't know what Zamboni's future holds.  Every day I give thanks that he
is still with me.  I also give thanks for having such a wonderful vet, and
pray that when I move in a year I'll be able to find somebody as
knowledgeable about rabbits as she is.  (Hey Arlette... got any vets in
Robert's Creek, BC??)

Whew!  What a harangue!  I apologize again for the tone of this post.  I
know you just wanted to be helpful, but you did push some buttons and being
me, I have to tell you about it... ;)

Michele


Quote:
> Please read this.

> http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

> My best

> Professor & The 2


> > This bout of stasis is different from the usual.  He does not have a
> > blockage in the usual spot.  This is good in that my surgery-loving
> > vet isn't tempted to go in and try to fix things, but bad in that I
> > don't really know what is going on.

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Michele Satanov » Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:18:43




Quote:
> Hi Michele,
> Gee, sure nice to see you around, I know there are a few people here who
> would love to talk to you about your "Cow poop" bunny...like Marri for
one,
> ANYWAY...

Marri and I have been in touch.

Quote:
> I think what your describing is aging. I've noticed with my old boy Cocoa,
> that he looks like his bunny suit as gotten to big. No, he is the same
> weight, but his skin is sagging with gravity, not unlike my 'behind' :)
That
> seems to make him look skinnier from the top. That is my observation.

It makes sense to me that it could be ageing.  I don't have any idea with
either Tika or Zamboni of just how old they are.  My dear little fuzzface
Tibs, though, will be 8 this summer (I don't believe it!), and she has
filled out!  Mind you, that might be fat, because whenever Zamboni is a bit
off his food, she comes along and takes care of it for him.  (Oops!!)

Quote:
> Cocoa is going on nine this August and he is in top shape as far as I can
> tell. I think older buns do lose muscle, but then, I think they would lose
> weight, since muscle weighs more than fat <thinking out loud> Anyway, hope
> that helps.

Wow!  I guess we're all growing old, huh?  But what you've just said is what
is puzzling me...  If they are losing muscle, they should be losing
weight... I don't get it, and I don't know whether I want to up the pellet
rations to put more weight on and risk them gaining fat, or to accept (which
I find hard to do) that I'm going to be petting bony bums for the rest of
their lives.  It surprises me that I've never seen any discussions about
this!

Quote:
> I hope our little Zamster is feeling better.

He is!  He's scarfing down some pellets as I type...

I think, to answer Rhonda's question, that I am back... I've missed APR...
but will I ever get my work done????

Michele

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Michele Satanov » Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:32:39


Quote:

> As for his weight -- muscle is notoriously heavier than fat -- so if he
> is thinner but heavier, could it just be his increased exercise?  Maybe
> your boy is simply fit (like you, girl!)

It's like this, Nona.  With me, you most certainly do NOT feel any bones.
<g>  With Zamboni (and Tika, too) you do.  If they were gaining muscle, then
I would expect that the bones would have a nice layer of flesh over them.
Ya know, solid like....?

I mean, Zamboni has been feeling downright skinny!  I was shocked to hear
that he had not lost weight.  It doesn't make sense to me.

I'd like to fatten him up a bit, but I don't want to make him fat, if you
know what I mean.

Quote:
> Wishing all of you well,

From my house to yours, too,

Michele

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Michele Satanov » Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:33:15


Thanks, Arlette.  It's good to be back, though I don't know if I can spare
the time right now...
M.



Quote:
> Gee Michele,
> I was not here for a day, and there you show up. I was thinking about you
> and how Zamboni was doing. I hope he is feeling better soon.

> --
> God Bless,
> Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in spirit
> Need a vet? Click here
> http://charm.air.on.ca/raytec/RabbitVetsMain.htm
> There is no blessing from God so sweet as having
> two chocolate coloured bunnies melting in your lap
> in the warm morning sun.

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Michele Satanov » Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:34:17


Thank you, and yes, he's doing better.  He did good work on his pellets
earlier tongiht, and right now he's working on a big pile of veggies.

Yay!  Thanks to EVERYBODY for your "vibes" and support.

Michele


Quote:
> Healing vibes for the Zamboni bunn.

> We hope that he is doing better soon.

> Sugar & Mary

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Joyce Reynolds-Wa » Tue, 04 Mar 2003 02:01:04


On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 03:07:59 -0800, "Michele Satanove"

snip

Quote:
>You will note that she does not mention a genetic condition which causes
>ongoing poor motility in the intestines.  Zamboni's is not a usual case of
>ileus.  He has a chronic condition without a cure which, in his case, causes
>his poops to be large, wet, and misshapen, and which leads to frequent bouts
>of ileus..  

Hey Michelle...

Is this basically a rabbit version of Crohn's disease?

I've been using Zamboni as an example to my 4-H kids, because not many
folks know about the English Spot's genetic condition.  Don't know if
any of them will retain it, but.....

jrw
(and I've got Usagi stuff to post, it's been a real bummer here of
late and fuzz***has been the cheerful part of it)

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Buck » Tue, 04 Mar 2003 04:33:47


Quote:
>I don't think that taking them to the gym
>with me will help them!  (Though it sure is helping me!!!)

We want PICS!  :)

(I can send you another one of mine if
you want.)

But, exercise is about all you can do
with a proper diet.

I have these carpeted cat platforms that
my gang just love jumping up and down
on.

Daryl

Bucky, Jackie, Mouse, Junior, Sasha & Patches!

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Enrique Kissinge » Tue, 04 Mar 2003 05:49:12


Quote:

> I have these carpeted cat platforms that
> my gang just love jumping up and down
> on.

> Daryl

> Bucky, Jackie, Mouse, Junior, Sasha & Patches!

Please be very careful with those carpeted cat  accessories. I bought a
little house for Biskit years ago; he spent hours inside and I thought
everything was fine until  I looked in and noticed he was eating the carpet.
Not too long after that he got very sick so I tossed it. I also discovered
really *** carpet tacks or nails inside the house; I could feel them in
the carpet when I rubbed my hand over it.

I think I'll go with the idea seen here to build a maze out of cardboard
boxes.

 
 
 

Questions, questions, questions

Post by Michele Satanov » Tue, 04 Mar 2003 06:19:35



Quote:
> >I don't think that taking them to the gym
> >with me will help them!  (Though it sure is helping me!!!)

> We want PICS!  :)

Not for AT LEAST a year, Bucky, dear.  I have a LONG way to go.

Quote:
> (I can send you another one of mine if
> you want.)

Sure, Buck, go ahead ir you want.  ;)

Quote:
> But, exercise is about all you can do
> with a proper diet.

> I have these carpeted cat platforms that
> my gang just love jumping up and down
> on.

Hmmmm.... new toys.... maybe they just don't have enough stimulation?  HAH!

Michele, the busy bunnies, the noisy birdies, and the poor puppy who is
wondering why he hasn't gotten out to the dog park much this week