Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

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Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by Pam Ingl » Mon, 15 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Here is an e-mail concerning roofing liner vs pond liner from Firestone, a  major
manufacturer.  I put this on not as a adverti***t, but in response to questions that
have been posted concerning this topic.

Quote:
> Subject:roofing liner vs pondgard
>   Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:52:19 -0400



> Allow me to introduce myself.  I am the Firestone sale representative
> responsible for the sales of all PONDGARD pondliner  in the U.S.  We
> appreciate you interest and inquiry regarding our Pondgard Olefin ***
> liner pondliner. Firestone has taken many precautions in offering a liner
> that is compatible with fish and plant life.  "PONDGARD" is our formulation
> that refers to pondliner.

> Yes, I have heard the stories about using "substitute materials" such as
> roofing as pondliner.You are only playing "russian roulette".   The
> difference in the cost of the two products is small compared to the problem
> you could encounter by using an unsafe liner.  For this reason, we at
> Firestone, recommend  using only PONDGARD olefin *** liner.  Our
> formulation is a proprietary formula and has been tested by an independant
> lab  with toxicity in mind.  Roofing is manufactured with UV resistance as
> the primary consideration.  Feel free to contact me by e-mail if you have
> further questions

 
 
 

Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by DOWatD » Mon, 15 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Thanks Pam!!!

A definitive answer finally.  Well sort of (giggle).  Actually, given the
controversy, we have stopped saying anything at all about this topic other
than the following:

"If the dealer you are purchasing it from will guarantee in *writing* that
it won't hurt your plants and animals (and will pay to replace them if it
does) then by all means by it.  You have nothing to lose in terms of money
with such a guarantee.  If they won't, however, buy stuff marked fish safe
and know that your fish/plants will never suffer."

Succinct.  I get large amounts of e-mail about this from all over the
Country and I say the same thing.  

Half the price is awfully hard to pass up when other stuff gets to be
expensive, I know.  I was pricing UV pumps the other day because a lot of
people also e-mail asking me where they can get them (we don't have them)
so I was trying to find someplace {any suggestions?} and I about died.
ICK!  RUN!

Thanks again!  I hope that guy likes to answer e-mail (laugh) -- he'll
probably get lots!

Dow
Daydreamer Perennial Gardens

http://www.daydreamergardens.com

 
 
 

Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by Roxanne Jeko » Tue, 16 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Pam, Hi!  Just wanted to add some personal experience to your note.  We  
installed a pond (18ftX10ftX4ft) using roofing liner.  During our search
for this EPDM liner, I spoke with the manufacturers (there is only two
in the USA) of roofing liners and discovered that you may indeed be
playing russian roulette.  According to the "expert" at Firestone, the
roofing liner is treated with a herbicide and an algaecide, but the
application of these chemicals is not strictly controlled.  Therefore,
one roll of roofing liner may contain no chemicals, and the next one may
get a double dose of the stuff.  
We went ahead with the roofing liner, testing now for four weeks for
chemical content of the water -- so far no bad stuff, just the normal
things.  Evidently this roll of liner missed the dose of stuff, but I
think this is why the manufacturers will not give a written guarantee
that it is "fish safe."
We have not added fish or plants yet, but plan to do so soon.  A friend
of ours who professionally installs ponds uses only roofing liner in his
installations, and has for years.  He has never experienced a problem,
except when he found out we only paid .29 per square foot for the liner
we bought.<BG>
Roxanne

 
 
 

Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by John Ranallett » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> Pam, Hi!  Just wanted to add some personal experience to your note.  We
> installed a pond (18ftX10ftX4ft) using roofing liner.  During our search
> for this EPDM liner, I spoke with the manufacturers (there is only two
> in the USA) of roofing liners and discovered that you may indeed be
> playing russian roulette.  According to the "expert" at Firestone, the
> roofing liner is treated with a herbicide and an algaecide, but the
> application of these chemicals is not strictly controlled.  Therefore,
> one roll of roofing liner may contain no chemicals, and the next one may
> get a double dose of the stuff.
> We went ahead with the roofing liner, testing now for four weeks for
> chemical content of the water -- so far no bad stuff, just the normal
> things.  Evidently this roll of liner missed the dose of stuff, but I
> think this is why the manufacturers will not give a written guarantee
> that it is "fish safe."
> We have not added fish or plants yet, but plan to do so soon.  A friend
> of ours who professionally installs ponds uses only roofing liner in his
> installations, and has for years.  He has never experienced a problem,
> except when he found out we only paid .29 per square foot for the liner
> we bought.<BG>
> Roxanne

Yesterday, I window-shopped a local plant & flower shop for pond
supplies like liner, etc for my new pond.  I walked to the rear of the
shop and found a roll of EDPM 45 mil liner and committed the
roofing supplier's name to memory.  

The flower shop was selling the liner for 80 cents per sq'.  I needed a
20' x 20' liner or 400 sq' for a total price of $320 plus tax.  I called
the supplier and got a full 20' x 50' roll for $300 plus $25 delivery
plus tax.  

Later in the day, I was working on the pond (hole) when a realtor who
was showing the neighbor's house said she had just built a pond.  She
said she got her liner from the flower shop in question.  When I
mentioned the roofing supplier, she said the florist warned her against
using "roofing material" because it was toxic to the fish and plants.  

Lessons:  1.  A merchant can charge what the market will bear.
          2.  Caveat emptor.
          3.  Most marketing is pure BS with some lies thrown in.

 
 
 

Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by icon » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


> > Pam, Hi!  Just wanted to add some personal experience to your note.  We
> > installed a pond (18ftX10ftX4ft) using roofing liner.  During our search
> > for this EPDM liner, I spoke with the manufacturers (there is only two
> > in the USA) of roofing liners and discovered that you may indeed be
> > playing russian roulette.  According to the "expert" at Firestone, the
> > roofing liner is treated with a herbicide and an algaecide, but the
> > application of these chemicals is not strictly controlled.  Therefore,
> > one roll of roofing liner may contain no chemicals, and the next one may
> > get a double dose of the stuff.
> > We went ahead with the roofing liner, testing now for four weeks for
> > chemical content of the water -- so far no bad stuff, just the normal
> > things.  Evidently this roll of liner missed the dose of stuff, but I
> > think this is why the manufacturers will not give a written guarantee
> > that it is "fish safe."
> > We have not added fish or plants yet, but plan to do so soon.  A friend
> > of ours who professionally installs ponds uses only roofing liner in his
> > installations, and has for years.  He has never experienced a problem,
> > except when he found out we only paid .29 per square foot for the liner
> > we bought.<BG>
> > Roxanne

> Yesterday, I window-shopped a local plant & flower shop for pond
> supplies like liner, etc for my new pond.  I walked to the rear of the
> shop and found a roll of EDPM 45 mil liner and committed the
> roofing supplier's name to memory.

> The flower shop was selling the liner for 80 cents per sq'.  I needed a
> 20' x 20' liner or 400 sq' for a total price of $320 plus tax.  I called
> the supplier and got a full 20' x 50' roll for $300 plus $25 delivery
> plus tax.

> Later in the day, I was working on the pond (hole) when a realtor who
> was showing the neighbor's house said she had just built a pond.  She
> said she got her liner from the flower shop in question.  When I
> mentioned the roofing supplier, she said the florist warned her against
> using "roofing material" because it was toxic to the fish and plants.

> Lessons:  1.  A merchant can charge what the market will bear.
>           2.  Caveat emptor.
>           3.  Most marketing is pure BS with some lies thrown in.

Yes, The sticker shock is bad at the pond places. I talked to a nursery in
Seattle today and was quoted $10.99/lf for 13' wide material & $14.99/lf for
19' wide material. This is around 80 cents/ sq. ft. I then talked to a place
called the Bambo Place north of Seattle. The lady there very cheerfully
offered to sell me a 5'x5' size peiece for $35. A $1.40/sq. ft.

Been trying to get with a local roofer. Said he would sell me a reminet of
65mil for 50 cents/sq. ft.

It may have stuff on it but the roofing grade is the ticket for me. Shoot i
don't have fish or plants (anymore), the pond is just there to entertain the
Coons & Herons

Hey John where are you getting your material?

david

 
 
 

Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by ssteidl » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00


I am sure the sheet itself came off the same assembly line.  However, the
handling and treatment after manufacture is what may vary.  I can see the
roofing product changing without any consideration for fish, including how
it's warehoused and shipped.  Product destined for ponds would need
tighter controls AFTER manufacture to be able to warrant the product,
which is what the added cost really is: warranty for fitness for use.

I know I know, just what this subject needs, more speculation.

Scott in Atlanta

 
 
 

Roofing liner vs Pond Liner

Post by jwa1.. » Sun, 21 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Once again, we have the big industry boys perpetuating the myth that
roofing *** is toxic. Please do not insult our intelligence any
further by posting this crap. Roofing *** is no more toxic than
Firestones "Pondguard" baloney, simply put.