Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Description of your first forum.

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by Michael Dobb » Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:00:00



Being new to California, we are ot Spa-types....we want to use the
exisiting inground spa's systems to run a future pond. There is a DE
filter, a NG heater and a good size pump, all wired up and plumbed.
Don't think we'll use the heater, but can the DE filter system be
adapted for use in filtering the pond. We do intend to have some kind of
biological filter as well...just wondering if this mechanical DE filter
could be made use of for something. If so, should it be before or after
the biologic filter and/or pump? Any thoughts on how to adjust the pump
output? I think it's likely to be too powerful for the size of pond
we're planning.

Mike.
*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of the poster not Amgen Inc.***

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by jwa1.. » Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:00:00




Quote:
>Being new to California, we are ot Spa-types....we want to use the
>exisiting inground spa's systems to run a future pond. There is a DE
>filter, a NG heater and a good size pump, all wired up and plumbed.
>Don't think we'll use the heater, but can the DE filter system be
>adapted for use in filtering the pond. We do intend to have some kind of
>biological filter as well...just wondering if this mechanical DE filter
>could be made use of for something. If so, should it be before or after
>the biologic filter and/or pump? Any thoughts on how to adjust the pump
>output? I think it's likely to be too powerful for the size of pond
>we're planning.
>Mike.
>*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of the poster not Amgen Inc.***

I would assume your filter is a cartridge type, and if so, yes you can
use it for pond use, either for particulate or biological purposes.
For mechanical, simply get a new cartridge with a larger micron rating
so it doesn't clog to fast, I would suggest getting a couple so you
can change them for cleaning. When one gets to loaded, simply change
them out, cleaning the old with TSP (rinse thoroughly). If you want it
for bio-filtering, get a length of PVC, ABS or whatever you can find
that closely matches the core of the old filter cartridge, drill a
multitude of holes in it, install it in place of the cartridge and
fill the void with your favorite flavor of media.. The pump should be
throttled down at the output side of things and can be done with the
addition of a gate valve in the line. A ball valve is acceptable, but
gate valves are more precisely controlled.
 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by Chuck Rus » Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Being new to California, we are ot Spa-types....we want to use the
> exisiting inground spa's systems to run a future pond. There is a DE
> filter, a NG heater and a good size pump, all wired up and plumbed.
> Don't think we'll use the heater, but can the DE filter system be
> adapted for use in filtering the pond. We do intend to have some kind of
> biological filter as well...just wondering if this mechanical DE filter
> could be made use of for something. If so, should it be before or after
> the biologic filter and/or pump? Any thoughts on how to adjust the pump
> output? I think it's likely to be too powerful for the size of pond
> we're planning.

Mike, I've heard that NOT being hot-tubbers is a felony in California!!!  (-:  
Your DE filter can be used, but you will have to clean it a lot.  Because
diatomaceous earth is so fine, it will tend to clog quickly.  Probably best to
disconnect it.  Your biofilter should be connected after the pump so you can make
it an unpressurized filter, easier to clean.  You're right, your pump is probably
too big.  Split off the flow by adding a couple more valves on the outlet side.  
One valve can go to your filter, another to a waterfall and whatever...

--
Chuck Rush
Pond Rushes, http://www.dallas.net/~crush

North Texas Water Garden Society, http://www.cirr.com/~ntwgs

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by RTal » Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Most filters and associated pumps which are designed for Spas are not well
suited for pond use.  The main problem is that the filters need higher
pressures to work properly and therefor require a pump that typically runs
at 3450rpm.  These units draw substantially more current.  The extra cost
to run them would  pay for a lower rpm pump that is designed for pond
applications.  Check the amp draw on your pumps motor.  You can get
4400gph for 3.18 amps at 115v.  Based on this, you can calculate your
costs to operate both units.
Rod

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by jwa1.. » Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Most filters and associated pumps which are designed for Spas are not well
>suited for pond use.  The main problem is that the filters need higher
>pressures to work properly and therefor require a pump that typically runs
>at 3450rpm.  These units draw substantially more current.  The extra cost
>to run them would  pay for a lower rpm pump that is designed for pond
>applications.  Check the amp draw on your pumps motor.  You can get
>4400gph for 3.18 amps at 115v.  Based on this, you can calculate your
>costs to operate both units.
>Rod

So why not get a pump rated at the same flow rate but go with a 220
and use less juice ???
 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by ed thele » Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:00:00


True - the same motor wired for 220 volts with the same pump and load
would use one half the current of a 110 volt motor
- BUT -
we are billed by the kilowatt hour, not the number of electrons that pass
through the device.   Given the above conditions (and the same phase
angle - very likely) the watt hour meter results would be the same.



Quote:

> >Most filters and associated pumps which are designed for Spas are not
well
> >suited for pond use.  The main problem is that the filters need higher
> >pressures to work properly and therefor require a pump that typically
runs
> >at 3450rpm.  These units draw substantially more current.  The extra
cost
> >to run them would  pay for a lower rpm pump that is designed for pond
> >applications.  Check the amp draw on your pumps motor.  You can get
> >4400gph for 3.18 amps at 115v.  Based on this, you can calculate your
> >costs to operate both units.
> >Rod
> So why not get a pump rated at the same flow rate but go with a 220
> and use less juice ???

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by Paul Unla » Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:00:00


True...the only advantage of going 220 is that you spread the load
evenly on the 2 "legs" coming into you home.

Quote:
>True - the same motor wired for 220 volts with the same pump and load
>would use one half the current of a 110 volt motor
>- BUT -
>we are billed by the kilowatt hour, not the number of electrons that pass
>through the device.   Given the above conditions (and the same phase
>angle - very likely) the watt hour meter results would be the same.
}

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by David Putma » Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Ed you are right as far as the kilowatt hours calulate out.
Watts = volts x amps  And a 3/4 hp motor wired for 120 draws 13.2 amps
while the same pump wire for 240 volts draws 6.6 amps. The kilowatts are
the same but the 240 volt would "present" a balanced load to your
electrical supply panel and be more efficent. Also due to the lower
amperage at 240 volts there would be less voltage drop (line loss) going
from the panel to the pump, also more efficent.
The bad news is the GFIs for 240 are useally more expensive
david

Quote:

> True - the same motor wired for 220 volts with the same pump and load
> would use one half the current of a 110 volt motor
> - BUT -
> we are billed by the kilowatt hour, not the number of electrons that pass
> through the device.   Given the above conditions (and the same phase
> angle - very likely) the watt hour meter results would be the same.




> > >Most filters and associated pumps which are designed for Spas are not
> well
> > >suited for pond use.  The main problem is that the filters need higher
> > >pressures to work properly and therefor require a pump that typically
> runs
> > >at 3450rpm.  These units draw substantially more current.  The extra
> cost
> > >to run them would  pay for a lower rpm pump that is designed for pond
> > >applications.  Check the amp draw on your pumps motor.  You can get
> > >4400gph for 3.18 amps at 115v.  Based on this, you can calculate your
> > >costs to operate both units.
> > >Rod
> > So why not get a pump rated at the same flow rate but go with a 220
> > and use less juice ???

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by Michael Dobb » Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:00:00


As the initiator of this thread, it amazes me how far it has strayed
from my original questions. I don't really care much about 220 versus
120 voltage efficiencies. What I really wanted to know (and still need
to know) is if my exisiting spa components can be adapted for a pond. Is
there any use for the Diatomaeous Earth filter? Will the pump be just
too powerful? Can I put some sort of speed control (ie. potentiometer)
on the electrics running the pump to reduce it's output? It's a shame to
just s***all that stuff and purchase new pond-specific components at
retail prices/taxes!

Mike.
*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of the poster not Amgen Inc.***

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by Chuck Rus » Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Trash the pump and the filter.  You are talking about a small pond and
you can do much better with a small Beckett pump and a cheap $50
do-it-yourself filter.  You will also get much better results.  It will
be cheaper to operate and much easier to clean.

As for the 120/240 thing, the efficiencies we are talking about for most
pond pumps is negligable.  Unless we are talking about BIG horsepower,
the extra installation cost is not going to ofset the operating savings
for a LONG time...

--
Chuck Rush
Pond Rushes, http://www.dallas.net/~crush

North Texas Water Garden Society, http://www.cirr.com/~ntwgs

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by freshwate.. » Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Yes, you can convert it to a pond filter.  I don't recall your exactr
specs., but in general, any thing that will hold water can be made into a
bio-filter.  All you need to do is to separate the medium (lava rock,
bioballs, whatever) from the outflow, so that it doesn't wash out (egg
crate is a good, inexpensive material for this), run all of the water
through it, and keep it running all of the time.  If the container is
small, your fish population will have to be limited. The size of the
filter will determine the load that it will accomodate.  Of course,
plants will help.  Water flow can be metered with a ball valve installed
AFTER the pump.

 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by Kerr » Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:00:00




 What I really wanted to know (and still need

Quote:
> to know) if my exisiting spa components can be adapted for a pond. Is
> there any use for the Diatomaeous Earth filter? Will the pump be just
> too powerful? Can I put some sort of speed control (ie. potentiometer)
> on the electrics running the pump to reduce it's output? It's a shame to
> just s***all that stuff and purchase new pond-specific components at
> retail prices/taxes!

I think it will work. Keep the spa pump speed on low . You will have to
divert
some of the water away from the spa to your bio-filter.
Yes, you will have to install a bio-filter. You can put a "T" and a valve
 in the line right after  the pump and then run a line to a bio-filter.
This way you will not have to mess with the existing spa plumbing.
Keep the basket in the spa filter so big junk does not go into the pump.
I don't know about the Diatomaeous Earth filter. I think it would plug up.
You could use it too if it's easy to clean. Flush it real well first.
What have you got to lose?
Kerry.
 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by jwa1.. » Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:00:00




Quote:
>Trash the pump and the filter.  You are talking about a small pond and
>you can do much better with a small Beckett pump and a cheap $50
>do-it-yourself filter.  You will also get much better results.  It will
>be cheaper to operate and much easier to clean.
>As for the 120/240 thing, the efficiencies we are talking about for most
>pond pumps is negligable.  Unless we are talking about BIG horsepower,
>the extra installation cost is not going to ofset the operating savings
>for a LONG time...
>Chuck Rush
>Pond Rushes, http://www.dallas.net/~crush

>North Texas Water Garden Society, http://www.cirr.com/~ntwgs

Personally, I realized a $10.00/month savings going from 110 to 220
and since I installed everything myself, the only additional cost was
$5.00 more for a double pole  breaker.
 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by David Putma » Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Mike the orginator wrote
As the initiator of this thread, it amazes me how far it has strayed
from my original questions. I don't really care much about 220 versus
120 voltage efficiencies. What I really wanted to know (and still need
to know) is if my exisiting spa components can be adapted for a pond. Is
there any use for the Diatomaeous Earth filter? Will the pump be just
too powerful? Can I put some sort of speed control (ie. potentiometer)
on the electrics running the pump to reduce it's output? It's a shame to
just s***all that stuff and purchase new pond-specific components at
retail prices/taxes!

Quote:

> Trash the pump and the filter.  You are talking about a small pond and
> you can do much better with a small Beckett pump and a cheap $50
> do-it-yourself filter.  You will also get much better results.  It will
> be cheaper to operate and much easier to clean.

Mike unless you are a tinkerer and enjoy that kind of thing Chuck is
probably right. However with a little  playing around you could probably
build something.
Sorry but spa motors don't work that way
Quote:
>Can I put some sort of speed control (ie. potentiometer) on the electrics running the pump to reduce it's output?

Usually there are just seperate motor windings for each speed.Depending
on which wires you hookup (thru the control) you get low & high.
david
 
 
 

Converting Spa pump/filter for Pond?

Post by jwa1.. » Sun, 26 Jan 1997 04:00:00




Quote:
>As the initiator of this thread, it amazes me how far it has strayed
>from my original questions. I don't really care much about 220 versus
>120 voltage efficiencies. What I really wanted to know (and still need
>to know) is if my exisiting spa components can be adapted for a pond. Is
>there any use for the Diatomaeous Earth filter? Will the pump be just
>too powerful? Can I put some sort of speed control (ie. potentiometer)
>on the electrics running the pump to reduce it's output? It's a shame to
>just s***all that stuff and purchase new pond-specific components at
>retail prices/taxes!
>Mike.
>*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of the poster not Amgen Inc.***

The DE filter (thought you were talking about a modified setup
originally with a cartridge also) will work, just use a courser
medium. A valve on the outflow will throttle down the pumps flow rate.