Oyster Shell

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Oyster Shell

Post by Dan Kenned » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:32:16



I found a bag of oyster shell when I was cleaning up in one of the out
buildings.   I might as well use it as throw it out and I am sure that I
saw a post fairly recently where someone mentioned using oyster shell in
their pond.    Unfortunately I didn't save the post but ask that who
ever it was re-post the information.
Thanks!
--
Dan Kennedy
Prince Edward Island
Canada

  dankennedy.vcf
< 1K Download
 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Tridacn » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:28:24


If you put oyster shells in there, that will put the pH up to 8.0 - 8.5.
 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Rod Farl » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:24:34


Quote:

>someone mentioned using oyster shell in their pond...

Oyster shells are aragonite, one form of calcium carbonate.  
At low pH, it dissolves slowly, increasing both hardness (calcium)
and alkalinity (bicarbonate, pH buffering capacity).  
As pH increases, the rate of dissolution slows, and essentially
stops by pH 8.  So it's "self-regulating", and can't harm anything.

Water in most of the eastern US and eastern Canada tends to be
soft and low in alkalinity.  This is a result of both acid rain and the
lack of limestone in soils and aquifers.  Adding calcium carbonate,
either as limestone or oyster shells, is helpful.
- Rod

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Dan Kenned » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:36:58


Thanks to those who replied regarding my oyster shell query.

Quote:


> >someone mentioned using oyster shell in their pond...

> Oyster shells are aragonite, one form of calcium carbonate.
> At low pH, it dissolves slowly, increasing both hardness (calcium)
> and alkalinity (bicarbonate, pH buffering capacity).
> As pH increases, the rate of dissolution slows, and essentially
> stops by pH 8.  So it's "self-regulating", and can't harm anything.

> Water in most of the eastern US and eastern Canada tends to be
> soft and low in alkalinity.  This is a result of both acid rain and the
> lack of limestone in soils and aquifers.  Adding calcium carbonate,
> either as limestone or oyster shells, is helpful.
> - Rod

--
Dan Kennedy
Prince Edward Island
Canada

  dankennedy.vcf
< 1K Download
 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by CBurrhus » Fri, 29 Jun 2001 02:12:07


Rod. Your message is very much appreaciated. But if you dont mind a bit of
critique. Most of us are not college/chem grads. We do not understand pH. Would
you please re-state  your very important  message. The pH issue is one of the
biggest reasons for pond  fish failure. It was mine.
 I still do not understand pH that much. It is confusing to most who think that
the low numbers mean low acid. The op. is actually so. Correct? Please expalin
the acid, base relationship and how the pond thrives acording to this important
balance.. There are many who require this in very understandable terrms. Many
of our loving ponders have little to no chem. ed.
  I have used baking soda to reg. my alk. pond water. My well water is alk. I
was reading about using oyster shells and how they self reg. What is the best
pH for ponds. ? I live in Md. where todays temp. is 90 degrees. I have a green
house with open areas now for the summer.
 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Rod Farl » Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:04:59


Quote:

>We do not understand pH.

Here's one introduction
http://www.theplantplace.com/water4.htm

All ponders really need to know is pH is a number the test kit gives,
that pH may be unstable so should be tested in early morning and
midafternoon, and pH is really just a symptom of KH (alkalinity).  
So if the pH is outside the desired range, or is unstable, look at KH
for the cause.

Quote:
>Please expalin the acid, base relationship and how the pond thrives
>acording to this important balance.. There are many who require this in
>very understandable terrms.

The USDA has published a very practical, 4-page "Interactions of pH,
Carbon Dioxide, Alkalinity and Hardness in Fish Ponds"
http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/aquanic/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/464fs.pdf
It's worth printing out as a handy reference.

Quote:
>I have used baking soda to reg. my alk. pond water. My well water is alk. I
>was reading about using oyster shells and how they self reg.

Baking soda will dissolve at any pH.
Calcium carbonate won't dissolve and is of no benefit if the pH is 8 or above.
If your pond is so "alk" that pH > 8, it won't help.

Quote:
>What is the best pH for ponds. ?

7.5 to 8.5.
Below pH 7.5, either CO2 is too high for fish, or KH is too low to keep
the pH stable.  Below pH 7, both are true.
Above pH 8.5, ammonia toxicity is of greater concern, and certain nutrients
become less available to plants so they don't do as well.  Above pH 9,
both problems become serious.
- Rod
 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by john rut » Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:40:53


Rod
I know you've stated this before but---- I have an aprox
3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
kit. test water kinda sorta matches the card.
how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so
the plants will grow better???

thanks
John Rutz
zone 5/6 border central New Mexico
since I gave up reality the posibilities are endless

see my pond at:
www.geocities.com/fuerjefe/index.html

Quote:


> >We do not understand pH.

> Here's one introduction
> http://www.theplantplace.com/water4.htm

> All ponders really need to know is pH is a number the test kit gives,
> that pH may be unstable so should be tested in early morning and
> midafternoon, and pH is really just a symptom of KH (alkalinity).
> So if the pH is outside the desired range, or is unstable, look at KH
> for the cause.

> >Please expalin the acid, base relationship and how the pond thrives
> >acording to this important balance.. There are many who require this in
> >very understandable terrms.

> The USDA has published a very practical, 4-page "Interactions of pH,
> Carbon Dioxide, Alkalinity and Hardness in Fish Ponds"
> http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/aquanic/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/464fs.pdf
> It's worth printing out as a handy reference.

> >I have used baking soda to reg. my alk. pond water. My well water is alk. I
> >was reading about using oyster shells and how they self reg.

> Baking soda will dissolve at any pH.
> Calcium carbonate won't dissolve and is of no benefit if the pH is 8 or above.
> If your pond is so "alk" that pH > 8, it won't help.

> >What is the best pH for ponds. ?

> 7.5 to 8.5.
> Below pH 7.5, either CO2 is too high for fish, or KH is too low to keep
> the pH stable.  Below pH 7, both are true.
> Above pH 8.5, ammonia toxicity is of greater concern, and certain nutrients
> become less available to plants so they don't do as well.  Above pH 9,
> both problems become serious.
> - Rod

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Philip Lewi » Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:01:57


Quote:

>3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
....
>how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so

If i recall my chemistry... Sodium bicarbonate is a base (pH > 7) with
some buffering tendancies.
Don't you want to add an acid to lower the pH?
 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Derek Broughto » Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:02:50


Quote:


>>3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
> ....
>>how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so
> If i recall my chemistry... Sodium bicarbonate is a base (pH > 7) with
> some buffering tendancies.
> Don't you want to add an acid to lower the pH?

Sodium Bicarbonate has a pH of 8.4.  Which means it'll bring a high pH pond
down to a perfectly acceptable value, with a _stable_ pH.  If you add acid,
you just strip out all the buffer, and then you won't be able to stop it
swinging dangerously between acid & base during the course of the day

However, John's not going to get his pH down to 8 with _any_ amount of
baking soda.
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by john rut » Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:13:51


heck i dont know,,, i failed chem
and lost track of Rods lessons on this a long time ago

John Rutz

Quote:


> >3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
> ....
> >how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so
> If i recall my chemistry... Sodium bicarbonate is a base (pH > 7) with
> some buffering tendancies.
> Don't you want to add an acid to lower the pH?

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by john rut » Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:34:06


Derek

thaks for clearing that up, I kinda figured it would come to
that, oh well after a year or three the plants adapt to the
high PH. and start growing normaly.

John Rutz
zone 5/6 border central New Mexico
since I gave up reality the posibilities are endless

see my pond at:
www.geocities.com/fuerjefe/index.html

Quote:



> >>3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
> > ....
> >>how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so
> > If i recall my chemistry... Sodium bicarbonate is a base (pH > 7) with
> > some buffering tendancies.
> > Don't you want to add an acid to lower the pH?

> Sodium Bicarbonate has a pH of 8.4.  Which means it'll bring a high pH pond
> down to a perfectly acceptable value, with a _stable_ pH.  If you add acid,
> you just strip out all the buffer, and then you won't be able to stop it
> swinging dangerously between acid & base during the course of the day

> However, John's not going to get his pH down to 8 with _any_ amount of
> baking soda.
> --
> Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Philip Lewi » Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:34:05


Quote:

>However, John's not going to get his pH down to 8 with _any_ amount of

well.. if he take an acid and mixes it with the BS (seemed
appropriate) and then bubbled the resulting carbon dioxide through the
pond, he might be able to lower it to 8.0 ^_^

just doing my part to be a smart a**.

--
be safe,
flip

^___^
\^.^/
==u==

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by john rut » Sat, 30 Jun 2001 04:05:36


Just for the halibut I tested GH and KH
KH =7 degrees
GH=93 degrees

John Rutz

Quote:


> >However, John's not going to get his pH down to 8 with _any_ amount of

> well.. if he take an acid and mixes it with the BS (seemed
> appropriate) and then bubbled the resulting carbon dioxide through the
> pond, he might be able to lower it to 8.0 ^_^

> just doing my part to be a smart a**.

> --
> be safe,
> flip

> ^___^
> \^.^/
> ==u==

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by Rod Farl » Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:34:52


Quote:

>I know you've stated this before but---- I have an aprox
>3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
>kit. test water kinda sorta matches the card.
>how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so
>the plants will grow better???
>KH =7 degrees
>GH=93 degrees

GH 93 degrees?  Not possible.  Could you check that again?

pH 8.5 to 9, KH 7 degrees is OK, as long as ammonia isn't a concern
(low fish stocking, established biofiltration).  I'd leave well enough alone.

As Derek mentioned, baking soda will move pH towards 8.4.  But with
KH 7 degrees already, it won't move it much.  If your KH were lower,
it would.

If you really want to lower the pH to the 8 to 8.5 range, you could add
a dose of 2 ounces of muriatic acid per 1000 gallons.  (Put one ounce in
a bucket, fill with water, and distribute it throughout the pond, so there
are no "hot spots" to pH shock your fish.  Repeat that six times for your
3000 gallon pond.)  That will lower KH by one degree.  Then wait a couple
days, and check the pH again.  

I think one dose will do it.  Be careful adding more than one dose - you
don't want to lower KH below about 5 degrees, or pH will become unstable.

I'm not recommending lowering pH as long is it's below 9, but that's how
you would do it if you want to.  Keep baking soda at hand.  If pH in early
morning and midafternoon differ, KH is too low - one pound of baking
soda per 3000 gallons will raise KH by one degree, and stabilize pH.
- Rod

 
 
 

Oyster Shell

Post by john rut » Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:02:31


Rod
checked it this AM pond 68
dont know what the H  I did yestersday musta lost coount.

John Rutz
zone 5/6 border central New Mexico
since I gave up reality the posibilities are endless

see my pond at:
www.geocities.com/fuerjefe/index.html

Quote:


> >I know you've stated this before but---- I have an aprox
> >3000 g pond w ph of 8.5-9 ., I cant tell with the tetra test
> >kit. test water kinda sorta matches the card.
> >how much baking soda do I need to keep the ph down to 8 so
> >the plants will grow better???
> >KH =7 degrees
> >GH=93 degrees

> GH 93 degrees?  Not possible.  Could you check that again?

> pH 8.5 to 9, KH 7 degrees is OK, as long as ammonia isn't a concern
> (low fish stocking, established biofiltration).  I'd leave well enough alone.

> As Derek mentioned, baking soda will move pH towards 8.4.  But with
> KH 7 degrees already, it won't move it much.  If your KH were lower,
> it would.

> If you really want to lower the pH to the 8 to 8.5 range, you could add
> a dose of 2 ounces of muriatic acid per 1000 gallons.  (Put one ounce in
> a bucket, fill with water, and distribute it throughout the pond, so there
> are no "hot spots" to pH shock your fish.  Repeat that six times for your
> 3000 gallon pond.)  That will lower KH by one degree.  Then wait a couple
> days, and check the pH again.

> I think one dose will do it.  Be careful adding more than one dose - you
> don't want to lower KH below about 5 degrees, or pH will become unstable.

> I'm not recommending lowering pH as long is it's below 9, but that's how
> you would do it if you want to.  Keep baking soda at hand.  If pH in early
> morning and midafternoon differ, KH is too low - one pound of baking
> soda per 3000 gallons will raise KH by one degree, and stabilize pH.
> - Rod