R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

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R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Jodylog » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:02:02



RE: the thread on stuffing tissues or toilet paper...
Which is better, ability to disintegrate or not fall apart?
RE: T-shirts, tissues or t.p.:
What was the resolution? to my question, anyway?

Quote:
>>But I just don't know WHAT to do
>>now, if I'm to eliminate tissues w/out >>replacing it with toilet paper.
>why would you not be able to substitute >with tp?? those are safe:)ch

MY RESPONSE (or proposition):
not that I personally have tried this, but I can vividly imagine what would
happen IF one of us (volunteers?) caring concerned hamster caring humans were
to -for the sake of the well being of our hamsters, just for the heck of it,
(when no one was sure to be around, with a camera, especially), and ...

we tried for ourselves just learn the answer, for once and for all...
what would happen if...
we STUFFED our OWN (or snooring spouse's) CHEEKS WITH
as much T.P. that could fit into one or both of our cheeks as possible
... and then tried pulling it out, one little tug at a time......(lol) ...
Now, I can
not be certain, because I obviously
would NOT do such a silly thing,
would YOU?
I can only imagine all the little bits of toilet paper that would
get stuck to the insides of YOUR cheek!!
HMMMMMmmmmm are the inner cheeks pouches of hammies wet or dry??

AND are tissues more likely to stay together.
Hamtaro waits anxiously for your repliessssssssssssss

Thank you,
Jody

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Rodentology Studen » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:20:35


Jody,

The insides of a hamster cheek are completely dry so the tissue paper will
not stick to the insides of the cheek pouches.  The only things that will
stick if they do decide to pouch are wet materials, gooey materials like
toffee, peanut butter or chocolate and things that melt at body
termperature.

The worry is that when you use things like t-shirts, cotton padding, cotton
balls or any other type of "fluff" or cloth, or fiberglass or whatever--is
that the hamster will injest the material.  When the material is injested
(eaten), the material will NOT break down in the intestines--the hamster
will experience a blockage, the stomach will swell to an enormous size and
then perhaps burst and then swift death will occur.  Imagine the pain and
suffering of the poor little creature!

That is what we are trying to prevent by offering our hams only toilet
paper.

I hope that the issue is very clear now.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by news » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:25:45



Quote:
> Jody,

> The insides of a hamster cheek are completely dry so the tissue paper will
> not stick to the insides of the cheek pouches.  The only things that will
> stick if they do decide to pouch are wet materials, gooey materials like
> toffee, peanut butter or chocolate and things that melt at body
> termperature.

> The worry is that when you use things like t-shirts, cotton padding,
cotton
> balls or any other type of "fluff" or cloth, or fiberglass or whatever--is
> that the hamster will injest the material.  When the material is injested
> (eaten), the material will NOT break down in the intestines--the hamster
> will experience a blockage, the stomach will swell to an enormous size and
> then perhaps burst and then swift death will occur.  Imagine the pain and
> suffering of the poor little creature!

> That is what we are trying to prevent by offering our hams only toilet
> paper.

> I hope that the issue is very clear now.

Hi Rodentology Student,

Can I ask, are you sure their pouches are really dry? I have had the
unfortunate experience of visiting somebody lately who has a hamster that
had what they thought was a growth in their hamster's cheek. It was taken to
the vet's and there under anaesthetic it was discovered that (and I
mentioned this in another post) there was a peanut that had sprouted. When I
questioned the vet we were told that each time the hamster drank, water got
into  the pouches. With the heat of the hamsters body, and the moisture that
got into the pouch from drinking, it allowed the peanut to propagate.

I've noticed on other hamsters too, especially dwarfs that are diabetics,
that if they hold the dry food in their  pouches long enough, it expands,
and is almost impossible to get it out. I had that experience myself, with 2
Campbell's that were diabetics, and I was continuously, almost every day,
having to tease the food out of their pouches, to stop this from happening.

I am not saying this to justify giving the hamsters Tissue Paper, because I
don't think that's a good idea, I'm just wondering where you found this out.

John.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Hilar » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 05:26:15



Quote:

> > The insides of a hamster cheek are completely dry so the tissue paper
> Can I ask, are you sure their pouches are really dry? I have had the
> unfortunate experience of visiting somebody lately who has a hamster that

Due to Bundles stroke and inability to fully empty her right hand pouch, I
have been gently emptying it about every 3rd day.

Whatever food has been in there has been moist, and seeds etc are swollen
and smell as if they are fermenting. Theres been no sign of any TP stuck in
there.

Hilary, Holly and Bundle.

:o)

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Rodentology Studen » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:04:09


Hamster cheeks are known to be dry when they are empty--that's why they are
used frequently in the science lab.  They are used to grow tumours.

When the pouches become infected the abscesses create a moist environment
much like blisters do when we irritate our heels or what have you.

A healthy buccal pouch is completely bone dry.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by news » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:29:58



Quote:
> Hamster cheeks are known to be dry when they are empty--that's why they
are
> used frequently in the science lab.  They are used to grow tumours.

> When the pouches become infected the abscesses create a moist environment
> much like blisters do when we irritate our heels or what have you.

> A healthy buccal pouch is completely bone dry.

That's when its empty, if a hamster has something in its pouch, when it
drinks, water can get into the pouch, causing the toilet paper or anything
in it to get wet. That's why sometimes hamsters have the problem of food
going off, or propagating, if its in the pouch so long.

That's one of the things you have to be really careful about with diabetic
Campbells, they are renound for getting food stuck in their pouches, and it
going off.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by KatGrrrrl » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:50:10


All I can give you is my experience with giving TP to hams...I have never had
ANY problem with infected pouches our anything!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vincent  6/27/01  
Dorothy 6/4/03

"I really wish there were more establishments that had a bunny-suit as their
uniform."

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Rodentology Studen » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:44:49


I didn't say that toilet paper would cause infected pouches.  I said that
kleenex would cause intestinal blockages.

And yes, technically anything could get wet inside the pouch however, some
hams never get pouch infections whereas others do all the time.  I don't
think that the ham intentionally gets things wet however.

Diabetics are prone to injury, yes I agree.  But why bring that up?  I made
no references to diabetes.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Jodylog » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:14:24


Hi
Rodentology Student: When you use hamsters in the lab for tumor experiences
are they eating & stuffing pouches?
And then drinking?
After which, is the cheek noted to be dry?
ALSO
Can they drink, and salivate, without ANY
water leaking into their pouches?
Thank you for bringing your knowledge to us.
ALSO where (city or state, & country)
is your lab?
I am grateful for the insight you share.
Jody
 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Rodentology Studen » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:07:33



Quote:
> Hi
> Rodentology Student: When you use hamsters in the lab for tumor
experiences
> are they eating & stuffing pouches?

Sort of, I think what happens is that only one pouch can be used while the
other one is used for the tumour research.  Hamster pouches are special in
that they have a high degree of immunologic tolerance to grafts and they
lack lymphatics so if a tumour is grown on the pouch it does not spread to
the rest of the body--it's a cruel experiment and effort is being made to
stop this kind of experimentation....  I myself am not not an animal health
technician--I don't work in a lab. I'm taking a course to become a
Rodentologist--it's more a veterinary course that specialises in only
rodents.

Quote:
> And then drinking?
> After which, is the cheek noted to be dry?
> ALSO
> Can they drink, and salivate, without ANY
> water leaking into their pouches?

Yep.  The salivary glands are seperate from the pouches or else tumours
could spread from the experiment animal pouch to the salivary gland.  A
hamster can pouch something without touching saliva although perhaps it
would take some effort.

Quote:
> Thank you for bringing your knowledge to us.
> ALSO where (city or state, & country)
> is your lab?
> I am grateful for the insight you share.
> Jody

My location is not something I would like to share.

I learned everything about the hamster from reading so really, it's not my
knowledge but things I've learned from many others.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Jodylog » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:27:49


Hi John

when it drinks, water can get into the pouch, causing the toilet paper or
anything
in it to get wet.
I Imagine that it would be hard for our hammies to get t.p. out of their
pouches, whether it's damp or soaked.
I don't think it's good for them to consume it at all. So I'd rather "not" give
him t.p, ( & tissues are now on my AVOID list) so what's left? I have an idea,
can we make an edible product that is soft and fluffy for bedding, as well as
being edible??????????
I am serious.
Maybe processed from a vegetable.
WAIT I HAVE AN IDEA ...
I wonder if he'd like to sleep on a bed of millet, It would be like a bean bag.
I'm going to do that right now.
But what can he cover himself up with, I am NOT being stubborn, just curious,
what is harmful about t-shirt (a4X4sm square cut out)
<if I inspect it regularly for bites>,
so long as he IS NOT biting it?
Well I'm off to pour a handfull of millet into his glass-bedroom. Please hurry
& tell me if you know it to be harmful, or if you've noticed any dislike to raw
millet (the grain)
from your numerous hammies.
And if you come up with a recipe for this edible bedding idea. Maybe we can run

a CONTEST on your website!
Thanks so much
Jody
http://community.webshots.com/user/softncuddly

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by news » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:56:42



Quote:
> Hi John

> when it drinks, water can get into the pouch, causing the toilet paper or
> anything
> in it to get wet.
> I Imagine that it would be hard for our hammies to get t.p. out of their
> pouches, whether it's damp or soaked.
> I don't think it's good for them to consume it at all. So I'd rather "not"
give
> him t.p, ( & tissues are now on my AVOID list) so what's left? I have an
idea,
> can we make an edible product that is soft and fluffy for bedding, as well
as
> being edible??????????
> I am serious.
> Maybe processed from a vegetable.
> WAIT I HAVE AN IDEA ...
> I wonder if he'd like to sleep on a bed of millet, It would be like a bean
bag.
> I'm going to do that right now.
> But what can he cover himself up with, I am NOT being stubborn, just
curious,
> what is harmful about t-shirt (a4X4sm square cut out)
> <if I inspect it regularly for bites>,
> so long as he IS NOT biting it?
> Well I'm off to pour a handfull of millet into his glass-bedroom. Please
hurry
> & tell me if you know it to be harmful, or if you've noticed any dislike
to raw
> millet (the grain)
> from your numerous hammies.
> And if you come up with a recipe for this edible bedding idea. Maybe we
can run

> a CONTEST on your website!
> Thanks so much
> Jody
> http://community.webshots.com/user/softncuddly

Hi Jody,

The only problem with having millet as a bedding is that hamsters love
millet, and its not good to give them too much of it to eat.

Ok, I need to get things clear here. I don't condone the use of Tissue
Paper, I never have, what has made me comment here is the use of White
Unscented Toilet paper that is degradable, that some people here are saying
is no good for their hamsters. Tissue paper and Toilet Paper are 2 different
things.

I give my hamsters degradable strips (and the Product is called tissue
paper) that disintegrates in water, that is made for small animals. Its a
lot thinner than a single piece of toilet paper, and basically falls apart
if you pull on it gently.

The questions I had with this thread were about the confusion, that still
exists, about the use of white unscented toilet paper, and the fact that its
not advisable to use it. White Unscented Toilet Paper is safe to use as
bedding for nests. Thick Tissue paper that is boxed for use as blowing your
nose is not safe, as that is not degradable.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Jodylog » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:47:01


Hi John
I thought I was not confused till I read this last post of yours!!! (lol).
But now I am more confused (smilng!!)!!

1. White Unscented Toilet paper that is degradable - that some people here are
saying is no good for their hamsters.
IS IT GOOD OR NOT?

2. The questions I had with this thread were about the confusion, that still
exists, about the use of white unscented toilet paper, and the fact that its
not advisable to use it. White Unscented Toilet Paper is safe to use as bedding
for nests.
IS IT SAFE FOR NESTS?
IF SO IS THAT THE ONLY SAFE USAGE

3. You give Your hamsters degradable strips (and the Product is called tissue
paper)
OH JUST GREAT WHY COULDN'T THEY SIMPLY CALL IT PET PAPER?!

4. Tthe Product is called tissue
paper, that disintegrates in water, that is made for small animals. Its a lot
thinner than a single piece of toilet paper, and basically falls apart if you
pull on it gently.  
SOUNDS GREAT, a perfect soulution!!!!
a)  WHO IS THE Mnfr.?
b)  CAN WE GET IT IN THE STATES,
I wonder, or else through Your source by means of mail?
c) IS IT THE SAME PRODUCT THAT OUR GIFT WRAPPING COMPANIES mnfr, which they
also call TISSUE PAPER????
(and comes in white & assorted colors,
of course we should use white).
d)  DOES YOURS ACTUALLY MELT IN WATER?
Thanks John,
There's hope ~ this last post of yours leads me to think there's actually a
solution in existance already, so that I can offer a suitable bedding that
might be soft, fluffy & provide warmth, yet be safe.
Q: Can this paper cause a paper cut?
Q: Come to think of it, with such bad eyesight how is it they don't
accidentally get stuck by sticks of aspen bedding?
My Hammie keeps bumping his face when climbing on his popscicle boardwalk.
Which I removed, after he used it to hop over the new play pen, I just got from
Wallmart... & temporarilly put on the couch ... and when Steve was helping me
arrange the tunnels tonight, he uh....
accidentally sat back, on the couch &
CRUNCH!!!! He felt bad, but I just couldn't stop laughing.
cya, Jody
Thanks for your responses!!! :-)
http://community.webshots.com/user/softncuddly

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by Jodylog » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:16:26


wait that sounds a bit confusing, this is what I meant to say:
My Hammie keeps bumping his face when climbing on his popscicle boardwalk.
Which is what made me wonder how does he manage to not get poked in the face
(or eyes) when walking through Aspen Chips or Timothy hay sticks...

The outcome of the boardwalk is that
after he scaled the top of the Playpen, (which I like that I just got from
Wallmart for only $10.00 US.), by climbing up the highest rung of the popscicle
boardwalk & hopping over the Playpen,...
 I removed the boardwalk out of his Playpen,  & temporarilly set the boardwalk
on the couch.
 ... and when Steve was helping me
arrange the tunnels tonight, he uh....
accidentally sat back, on the couch &
CRUNCH!!!! He felt bad, but I just couldn't stop laughing.

 
 
 

R the inside of the cheek pouches wet/dry?

Post by news » Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:26:00



Quote:
> Hi John
> I thought I was not confused till I read this last post of yours!!! (lol).
> But now I am more confused (smilng!!)!!

> 1. White Unscented Toilet paper that is degradable - that some people here
are
> saying is no good for their hamsters.
> IS IT GOOD OR NOT?

> 2. The questions I had with this thread were about the confusion, that
still
> exists, about the use of white unscented toilet paper, and the fact that
its
> not advisable to use it. White Unscented Toilet Paper is safe to use as
bedding
> for nests.
> IS IT SAFE FOR NESTS?
> IF SO IS THAT THE ONLY SAFE USAGE

> 3. You give Your hamsters degradable strips (and the Product is called
tissue
> paper)
> OH JUST GREAT WHY COULDN'T THEY SIMPLY CALL IT PET PAPER?!

> 4. Tthe Product is called tissue
> paper, that disintegrates in water, that is made for small animals. Its a
lot
> thinner than a single piece of toilet paper, and basically falls apart if
you
> pull on it gently.
> SOUNDS GREAT, a perfect soulution!!!!
> a)  WHO IS THE Mnfr.?
> b)  CAN WE GET IT IN THE STATES,
> I wonder, or else through Your source by means of mail?
> c) IS IT THE SAME PRODUCT THAT OUR GIFT WRAPPING COMPANIES mnfr, which
they
> also call TISSUE PAPER????
> (and comes in white & assorted colors,
> of course we should use white).
> d)  DOES YOURS ACTUALLY MELT IN WATER?
> Thanks John,
> There's hope ~ this last post of yours leads me to think there's actually
a
> solution in existance already, so that I can offer a suitable bedding that
> might be soft, fluffy & provide warmth, yet be safe.
> Q: Can this paper cause a paper cut?
> Q: Come to think of it, with such bad eyesight how is it they don't
> accidentally get stuck by sticks of aspen bedding?
> My Hammie keeps bumping his face when climbing on his popscicle boardwalk.
> Which I removed, after he used it to hop over the new play pen, I just got
from
> Wallmart... & temporarilly put on the couch ... and when Steve was helping
me
> arrange the tunnels tonight, he uh....
> accidentally sat back, on the couch &
> CRUNCH!!!! He felt bad, but I just couldn't stop laughing.
> cya, Jody
> Thanks for your responses!!! :-)
> http://community.webshots.com/user/softncuddly

Hi Jody,

Well, I have found the Product on the net, I think from their website you
can get the stuff, but may have to order it. I just called them, they have
never Shipped to the States before, but they said they would be willing to
do so, with shipping cost's

Here's the website with the product on there.

http://www.vetbed-uk.demon.co.uk/

Its called Safe Bed, Paper Wool.  I use it for all my hamsters and rats, for
males and females with pups. I was told about it by a breeder that has been
using it for years. I buy the Huge bag, 2kg's  it costs me about 8.50 as
the exchange rate is now its about $15. It last's for ages, (I have about 80
cages) I change it about every 2 weeks, depending on how much you have in
the nest, and how much the hamster pees in the nest. I never change it all.

They do have other products that they say are safe, but I have never used
them, so I can't say for sure if they are.

Hope this helps.

John.