Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Description of your first forum.

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by gfen » Tue, 15 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Two and a half years ago I picked up a hand raised, baby male tiel, and a
hoei cage, approx. 24x24x30 (I can't estimate measurements for crap, I may
be utterly wrong on that, it may be 18x18x24). When I picked up the cage, I
kept the option of adding a second bird shortly down the line in mind, and
the store (considered by everyone I've talked to in the area to be very
reputable [Bird Mania, Easton PA]) told me that this cage would be roomy
enough for a pair.

Well, time goes on, and I have less time to devote to him. I feel pretty
bad, and as such, his screeching hijynx have gotten significantly worse as
the weeks march on. I feel bad not being able to provide the time for him,
often not even being able to take him out more than weekly (please, all
cruelty comments aside, I don't feel good about this sort of thing).

I will say, however, that for a somewhat neglected bird, he seems to be
doing pretty well. He's still got great colouring, is filled out, and never
picks at his feathers (despite the fact that he seems to ignore toys almost
all the time). The only real problem, outside of my lack of attention, is
the noise. Which is very annoying some times (understatement :).

So, I've been thinking about adding a second tiel to the house, hopefully so
that they'll bond with each other, and keep each other happy when I can't be
around. However, this brings up some questions.

Due to the age of the bird in question, is adding a second tiel going to be
difficult to impossible, or should it be a simple matter? What are some of
the basics that go into the combining of two birds (in depth answers and
discussions are moot at this point, if I decide to go through with it,
additional questions will be asked at that point).  Will they totally bond
with each other, and ignore me? Or, will they at least remain friendly
enough to come out, sit and seek my attention (without driving me batty!) Is
there a good chance they'll not get along, or worse yet, hate each other
(one bird is a handful, two is incomprehensible).  Assuming it looks like a
good plan, would I want a second male or a female? I really and truly do not
want them to breed, and don't even consider this a future possibility I may
take. Also, I never really instituted a learn-to-talk/whistle routine. Would
adding a second bird shoot down any chance of this, or would it not affect
it at all.

Also, whether I get a second bird or not, I think I'd like to invest in a
new, spacious cage, assuming this is considered a "good thing" for birds (I
know, sounds silly, you'd think more is better, but sometimes that's not
true with certain animals, hey it baffles me too). The cage I've found for a
great price at a local store is the Midwest 2000 flight cage. 36"x24"x48"
seems like it'll be plenty big enough for him to move around to his content,
and hang toys w/o crowding him. Also, if I add a second bird, I figure with
all that room it'll be even better for when they just don't feel like
cozying up.

So, please offer your suggestions on helping me please (and silence) my
bird, and what'll be best for him in the long run.

 
 
 

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by G. Fenstermache » Tue, 15 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> I would have to agree with you - your bird really isn't getting the
attention
> he needs, and he probably would enjoy a friend of the same species.  I
would
> suggest a female for two reasons: one, you're complaining about noise, and

two

(reasons deleted, I think we can all agree on 'em).

Great. As I said, my only concern is breeding birds, becuase its something I
just don't think I can handle in my already hectic lifestyle. I originally
wanted to shoot for a hen, because of their quieter natures. Again,
breeding. The other thing that I fear about females are stories of them
becoming eggbound.

Quote:
> sure you purchase his prospective friend from a place with a good return
> policy!

Oh, I can see my trying to find a location that'll provide a month long
return, now. -sigh- Oh well, at least its worth a shot, and I'm sure the
store I bought the first one would understand, even if I don't want to give
them my business anymore, as the last time I was there, to ask about this
very issue, I was treated somewhat rudely.

Quote:
> nestbox, and you *should* do okay... but there are always some pairs that
will
> breed no matter what!  And if you ever have a hen that starts laying eggs

on

Damn over sexed birds. :)

Quote:
> they're both tame, then you can introduce them immediately outside the

cages -

When you say introduce outside the cages, you mean in the open or by putting
the cages in close proximity?

Quote:
> if they don't take to each other right away, then you can continue moving
the
> cages closer together, but if they "fall in love at first sight", then you
can
> usually put them in the same cage right away - neutral territory if
possible
> (the new cage).  Try to do this when you have a few hours to keep an eye
on
> them afterwards to watch for problems, however.

So, you also agree with the previous suggestions of picking up a cheap,
little beater cage?

Quote:
> When it comes to whether or not they'll still be friendly towards you...
they
> may.  Or they may not.  The new bird should be hand-fed and friendly, if
> possible.  The quarantine period will give you a chance to make friends
with
> her without your other bird taking up her attentions.  Many***atiel

pairs, if

No doubt. I can also provide regular attention to the new bird for the first
month or so, hopefully to facilitate bonding with me.

When I say friendly, I don't think I need them fawning over me constantly in
an attempt to gain my constant attention. I just don't want them to lunge
for my fingers when I open the cage in an attempt to spend some time with
them and for them to maybe fly over to my arm and shoulder, and be a little
interested in my life. :)

Quote:
> should be able to get by with your current once a week handling periods
(and
> without the guilt you're feeling now), but don't expect to be able to
start
> skipping those.  And of course... more often is better!

Believe me, I've been trying in a big way to provide more time now, too.
But, even with trying to get him out every day, or twice a day, I still
manage to miss chances, like more than about 5 minutes yesterday. Sort of
bites being busy, but hey?

Quote:
> I have two of the Midwest cages myself - they're nice cages, but make sure
you
> buy the one with the smaller bar spacing.  The one with the 1" bar spacing
will
> allow a 'tiel to fit their head through.

The 2000 is the one with 1/2" spacing. There's the 2200 (or 2100) which is
the same dimensions, but 1" spacing. Its a shame, too, because I can shave
another $50 off the price. Oh well..

Quote:
> Hope that helps some!
> Lara

So far, those of you who have answered have been a big help.
 
 
 

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by Mari-Sue Gregor » Wed, 16 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Yes, for birds the roomier the cage the better.  Generally as large as you can
fit in your house.  Remember when selecting a cage, birds tend to use only the
top third.  So wider is better than tall.  Most people who design bird cages
must have never owned a bird in their lives!
For tiels, get a CHEAPY cage for the quaran*** and the intro process.  Save the
great new cage for when you are ready to put them together.  It will be a new
home to both, nobody's territory.
To introduce a new bird.  First: QUARAN*** for at least one month in another
room.  No sharing of utensils or food dishes. You never know what you are
bringing home with your new friend.  Don't buy a new set of stuff for the new
bird, just sanitize some of what you already have and keep it for him.  Remember
to wash your hands very well between birds.
Two: The introduction.  Move the new birds cage to the same room with the old
bird.
Over a span of days, gradually move the cages closer together.  Move them til
they are as close as possible.  When they are setting close together and trying
to preen each other through the cages, it will be time to try them in their new
cage.  The intro process could take a few weeks before you are sure there will
be no aggression between birds.
Keep all cages incase of emergency.  The small cheapy cage would be good to save
in case of evacuation.  The cage the existing bird is in would be good incase
aggression develops or a bird gets sick and needs his own space for a while.
Try those treat cages or the kabob fruit and veggie skewers to help keep your
birds entertained while you are away.  You might also leave the radio playing.
Good luck!
Mari-Sue
Quote:

> Two and a half years ago I picked up a hand raised, baby male tiel, and a
> hoei cage, approx. 24x24x30 (I can't estimate measurements for crap, I may
> be utterly wrong on that, it may be 18x18x24). When I picked up the cage, I
> kept the option of adding a second bird shortly down the line in mind, and
> the store (considered by everyone I've talked to in the area to be very
> reputable [Bird Mania, Easton PA]) told me that this cage would be roomy
> enough for a pair.

> Well, time goes on, and I have less time to devote to him. I feel pretty
> bad, and as such, his screeching hijynx have gotten significantly worse as
> the weeks march on. I feel bad not being able to provide the time for him,
> often not even being able to take him out more than weekly (please, all
> cruelty comments aside, I don't feel good about this sort of thing).

> I will say, however, that for a somewhat neglected bird, he seems to be
> doing pretty well. He's still got great colouring, is filled out, and never
> picks at his feathers (despite the fact that he seems to ignore toys almost
> all the time). The only real problem, outside of my lack of attention, is
> the noise. Which is very annoying some times (understatement :).

> So, I've been thinking about adding a second tiel to the house, hopefully so
> that they'll bond with each other, and keep each other happy when I can't be
> around. However, this brings up some questions.

> Due to the age of the bird in question, is adding a second tiel going to be
> difficult to impossible, or should it be a simple matter? What are some of
> the basics that go into the combining of two birds (in depth answers and
> discussions are moot at this point, if I decide to go through with it,
> additional questions will be asked at that point).  Will they totally bond
> with each other, and ignore me? Or, will they at least remain friendly
> enough to come out, sit and seek my attention (without driving me batty!) Is
> there a good chance they'll not get along, or worse yet, hate each other
> (one bird is a handful, two is incomprehensible).  Assuming it looks like a
> good plan, would I want a second male or a female? I really and truly do not
> want them to breed, and don't even consider this a future possibility I may
> take. Also, I never really instituted a learn-to-talk/whistle routine. Would
> adding a second bird shoot down any chance of this, or would it not affect
> it at all.

> Also, whether I get a second bird or not, I think I'd like to invest in a
> new, spacious cage, assuming this is considered a "good thing" for birds (I
> know, sounds silly, you'd think more is better, but sometimes that's not
> true with certain animals, hey it baffles me too). The cage I've found for a
> great price at a local store is the Midwest 2000 flight cage. 36"x24"x48"
> seems like it'll be plenty big enough for him to move around to his content,
> and hang toys w/o crowding him. Also, if I add a second bird, I figure with
> all that room it'll be even better for when they just don't feel like
> cozying up.

> So, please offer your suggestions on helping me please (and silence) my
> bird, and what'll be best for him in the long run.

 
 
 

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by G. Fenstermache » Wed, 16 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Oh, and another thing, about new cages...

If I pick up a shiny new, big cage and put my current single bird in it, and
leave him in it for a few months, then decide to pick up a second bird, how
much anger and hate will it cause bird #1 to put him back in the old,
smaller cage, for some time so that when they both shift into the newer, big
cage, it'll be back to new territory?

Uhh, does that make sense?

 
 
 

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by Lara » Thu, 17 Aug 2000 04:00:00


I would have to agree with you - your bird really isn't getting the attention
he needs, and he probably would enjoy a friend of the same species.  I would
suggest a female for two reasons: one, you're complaining about noise, and two
males can be very noisy!  The hens are much quieter than the males as a rule.
And two, he probably would be more receptive to making friends with a female
than another male - there is always the possibility that he is too bonded to
humans to ever make friends with another 'tiel, and with that in mind, make
sure you purchase his prospective friend from a place with a good return
policy!

BUT, it may be hard to stop a male & female breeding if they really want to.
Don't give them a nestbox or anything that might possibly be mistaken for a
nestbox, and you *should* do okay... but there are always some pairs that will
breed no matter what!  And if you ever have a hen that starts laying eggs on
the cage floor, at that point I recommend giving in and buying them a dern
nestbox ;-)  If you don't even want there to be a possibility of breeding, then
another male is the only way to prevent that.

As other replyer said, I highly recommend quartining any new bird for at least
a month.  I also agree with everything else she said, with a few exceptions: if
they're both tame, then you can introduce them immediately outside the cages -
if they don't take to each other right away, then you can continue moving the
cages closer together, but if they "fall in love at first sight", then you can
usually put them in the same cage right away - neutral territory if possible
(the new cage).  Try to do this when you have a few hours to keep an eye on
them afterwards to watch for problems, however.

When it comes to whether or not they'll still be friendly towards you... they
may.  Or they may not.  The new bird should be hand-fed and friendly, if
possible.  The quarantine period will give you a chance to make friends with
her without your other bird taking up her attentions.  Many***atiel pairs, if
each individual starts off tame & friendly, will remain tame and friendly even
after they bond to each other... but other pairs do not.  And tame pairs
require a certain minimum amount of attention & handling to remain tame - you
should be able to get by with your current once a week handling periods (and
without the guilt you're feeling now), but don't expect to be able to start
skipping those.  And of course... more often is better!

I have two of the Midwest cages myself - they're nice cages, but make sure you
buy the one with the smaller bar spacing.  The one with the 1" bar spacing will
allow a 'tiel to fit their head through.

Hope that helps some!
Lara

Quote:

> Two and a half years ago I picked up a hand raised, baby male tiel, and a
> hoei cage, approx. 24x24x30 (I can't estimate measurements for crap, I may
> be utterly wrong on that, it may be 18x18x24). When I picked up the cage, I
> kept the option of adding a second bird shortly down the line in mind, and
> the store (considered by everyone I've talked to in the area to be very
> reputable [Bird Mania, Easton PA]) told me that this cage would be roomy
> enough for a pair.

> Well, time goes on, and I have less time to devote to him. I feel pretty
> bad, and as such, his screeching hijynx have gotten significantly worse as
> the weeks march on. I feel bad not being able to provide the time for him,
> often not even being able to take him out more than weekly (please, all
> cruelty comments aside, I don't feel good about this sort of thing).

> I will say, however, that for a somewhat neglected bird, he seems to be
> doing pretty well. He's still got great colouring, is filled out, and never
> picks at his feathers (despite the fact that he seems to ignore toys almost
> all the time). The only real problem, outside of my lack of attention, is
> the noise. Which is very annoying some times (understatement :).

> So, I've been thinking about adding a second tiel to the house, hopefully so
> that they'll bond with each other, and keep each other happy when I can't be
> around. However, this brings up some questions.

> Due to the age of the bird in question, is adding a second tiel going to be
> difficult to impossible, or should it be a simple matter? What are some of
> the basics that go into the combining of two birds (in depth answers and
> discussions are moot at this point, if I decide to go through with it,
> additional questions will be asked at that point).  Will they totally bond
> with each other, and ignore me? Or, will they at least remain friendly
> enough to come out, sit and seek my attention (without driving me batty!) Is
> there a good chance they'll not get along, or worse yet, hate each other
> (one bird is a handful, two is incomprehensible).  Assuming it looks like a
> good plan, would I want a second male or a female? I really and truly do not
> want them to breed, and don't even consider this a future possibility I may
> take. Also, I never really instituted a learn-to-talk/whistle routine. Would
> adding a second bird shoot down any chance of this, or would it not affect
> it at all.

> Also, whether I get a second bird or not, I think I'd like to invest in a
> new, spacious cage, assuming this is considered a "good thing" for birds (I
> know, sounds silly, you'd think more is better, but sometimes that's not
> true with certain animals, hey it baffles me too). The cage I've found for a
> great price at a local store is the Midwest 2000 flight cage. 36"x24"x48"
> seems like it'll be plenty big enough for him to move around to his content,
> and hang toys w/o crowding him. Also, if I add a second bird, I figure with
> all that room it'll be even better for when they just don't feel like
> cozying up.

> So, please offer your suggestions on helping me please (and silence) my
> bird, and what'll be best for him in the long run.

 
 
 

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by Mari-Sue Gregor » Sat, 19 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Territory is only what is yours right now.  In other words, put him back in his
old cage (along with his old and trusted toys), remove the new one from sight,
and the old one is his territory.   When it is time to use the new cage again,
rearrange the perches, food and water, put in a few new toys (retire the old
toys for awhile)...and voila', new territory.
Just make sure that the two birds are ready to be placed together before you
leave them locked in the same cage unattended.   Any signs of aggression, and
they are not ready to be housed together.
Mari-Sue
Quote:

> Oh, and another thing, about new cages...

> If I pick up a shiny new, big cage and put my current single bird in it, and
> leave him in it for a few months, then decide to pick up a second bird, how
> much anger and hate will it cause bird #1 to put him back in the old,
> smaller cage, for some time so that when they both shift into the newer, big
> cage, it'll be back to new territory?

> Uhh, does that make sense?

 
 
 

Bitching tiel, cage mates, new cages.

Post by G. Fenstermache » Sat, 19 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
> Territory is only what is yours right now.  In other words, put him back

in his

Great!

Quote:
> Just make sure that the two birds are ready to be placed together before
you
> leave them locked in the same cage unattended.   Any signs of aggression,
and
> they are not ready to be housed together.

Understood. This lets me give him a better area now, and continue to try and
improve my care habits, and if I still can't do it, fall back to the second
bird option. Excellent.