Moon's Graden

I'm rather upset about the clipping of the bird's wings. This is I suppose
done solely for the reason that the bird does not accidentally escape.

So if you have a baby, would you "clip" his/her legs for the same reason ?

No, you are carefull, and look after the infant that no harm is done.

So, is it so, that people are so lazy, that they prefer to make the bird
cripple, than be carefull ?

I think that the wing clipping is a maltreatment, that should be prosecuted.

Timo

Now he is clipped and perfectly content to hippity hop around. That little dude
can run like you wouldnt believe too. Now therewill be no more episodes of having
to pull a f**ked up feather and trim skin with scissors and bleed all over the place.

He has been clipped for about 2 months now and the problem for him and me are
in place now. I can do the trim myself and im very good at it and he doesnt even
mind it.

Cruel or concerned?

Yours truly,
NotLazy

It is also done to cut down the chance of having the bird escape.  The average
pet bird will not know how to survive in the wild, and most likely soon die
of exposure, disease, or predation. If I am reading the header right, you
are posting from Finland... what's the chance of an escaped parrot surviving
in the wild in your country?  Some birds may manage for a while in milder
climates, some may even become established and breed, but those are the
exceptions... not to mention their adapting to the wild may wreak havoc
upon native species.

I am hoping this post was the result of someone leaving their terminal
unattended.  Obviously there's always room to debate clipping vs. not
clipping, but this character's attitude strikes me as annoying as hell...

Timo, the people on this group care about their birds, and they clip their
wings because they care.  I suggest that you find a better cause in life than
badgering consciencious pet owners.  Maybe 'brutatlity' in the cattle industry,
or I could tell you some good stories about what they do to spent thoroghbred
horses, just leave these nice people alone, they don't deserve your crap.

--Eric S. Hill

"I'm rather upset about the clipping of the bird's wings. This is I
suppose
done solely for the reason that the bird does not accidentally
escape."

No, this is done to protect the bird.  When a bird is flighted, there
are too many possibilities for accidents.  Birds tend to fly into
windows, mirrors, sometimes even walls.  They can fly faster than
their owners can walk, so comparing them to babies just doesn't work.
Babies crawl around on the ground, v-e-r-y slowly.  Birds fly through
the air and land where people can't reach them.

There are other issues, too.  I had a flighted budgie that destroyed
the tops of all my drapes.  I had another one who kept landing behind
furniture that was difficult to move.  By the time I got him out, he
was panting and terrified.

It's important to do what is best for the bird, and that includes
what is safest.  All of my birds have their wings clipped.  I have
ladders all over the house,  a four-foot manzinita tree, three
playpens - so they have a way to get around, and things to do.  And I
don't have to worry about them getting stuck behind the refrigerator!

Michele Lyons

                                                        ~Steve

To all of you who were offended by this posting, I think the poster in all
likelihood is not a bird owner, did not intend to tick people off, but is simplyignorant.  Many of my non-bird friends think the same thing until they
understand the reasons (we all know what they are).  Let's not let this turn
into a 10 posts a day thread. This is such a friendly group;  let's keep it
that way!

Dawn
Seattle, Wa

Birds don't have any feeling in the parts of the feathers that are
clipped, so they don't get hurt by the clipping.  And they can still
fly, just not long distances or gain much altitude, so it doesn't make
the bird "a cripple."  It also makes the bird more interested in its
human companions (and somewhat dependant on them), and easier to train
so it doesn't get into trouble in the future.

It has nothing to do with lazyness; have you ever seen how fast a bird
can fly?  Have you ever chased a bird around the house, or seen one hit a
mirror or window so hard it broke its neck?  Or landed someplace
dangerous (a hot stove, boiling water, the toilet bowl) and died?

A bird is not a human baby -- it's a pet that's dependant on us for its
well-being.  And part of that dependence means our taking
responsibility for keeping it out of trouble.  Clipping a dogs wings
is no more maltreatment than having a pet dog neutered.

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Compuserve: 72631,23   FidoNet: 1:109/136   MCI Mail: 433-3961

OK, I'll get down from the soapbox.  I respectfully submit that you
know nothing about which you speak.

Cheers,
Phil

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I would not ever consider to take their basic method of locomotion away, by
clipping their wings. I see it as a very cruel thing to do.

The most naive pro wing clipping argument I have seen is that the wing
clipping is like a haircut and the feathers grow back. But then the wings
are again cut. Denying the most important and enjoyable capability (for a
bird), the ability to fly, for the life.

Timo

Besides, frankly, how can you state that your birds are happy?  By the same
authority, those of us who have clipped birds can say the same thing about
our clipped pets.  I think it takes more than flying to make a happy bird,
and conversely, flightlessnes doesn't negate happiness.  

Besides, let's define "basic": it means something that is strictly necessary.
A bird that can still walk to its roost/cage/food dish/water dish/toys
is still fulfilling its basic needs, exercise included (if it engages in
flapping which most birds do).

As to "the ability to fly, for their life," this doesn't apply to those of
us who keep our houses free of potential bird predators!!!!  That, in my
opinion, *is* the most naive anti-wing clipping argument.  I've seen
the neighbor's cat take songbirds right off our lawn, and we are talking
about birds who were wild, used to living in the wild, with senses
supposedly honed to predator evasion.  My 'tiel wouldn't stand a chance,
he sees a cat and he wants to go sing to it...

This argument grows tiresome.  If you think you can keep your birds safe
and flighted, do so, but don't assume that by doing not clipping you are
protecting them from predators or household threats 100%.  If you would
rather not learn from the experiences of others, that's your prerogative.
Just don't go making accusations about "cruelty" when you have no proof
whatsoever that clipped birds are psychologically damaged or in pain or
unhappy.  Next time you read a kiwi's mind, or mind-link with an ostrich,
and they convey the message that they do feel like lesser citizens of the
class Aves because they are physically incapable of flight we can talk about
this so-called cruelty.