Moon's Graden

by **Frederick Wilso** » Fri, 04 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
> includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> off...always HUMAN error.

He asked for specifics, not emotion. You can also find plenty of horror
stories of drownings, ***s, crushings, and a wide variety of
poisoning from many sources. the only way anyone can be 100% sure they
will never harm their bird through an accident is to NEVER have a bird.
Off the top of my head the ways birds have died, or were seriously
injured through accident on the various lists I'm on:

Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.

Poisonings - other than PTFE - includes scented candles, cleaning
solvent, bleach/ammonia cleaners being accidently mixed, toxic plants,
furniture polish, brake fluid, glue.

***s - Vacuum cleaner, lawn mower, weed eater, sewing machine,
knives

Drownings - toilets, sincs, water glass, coffee cup, bath tub, wading
pool, ornamental fountain, washing machine.

Misc - boiling water, open oven, electric stove burner, gas stove
burner, malfunctioning gas stove, malfunctioning furnace, cloths dryer,
electrical cords, windows, mirrors, ropes, strings, various toys

In fact I have only heard of a single verified case of teflon poisoning
in the past two years and a couple of "consistant with" cases. Teflon
is a known, and very deadly, poison under certain conditions but the
hysteria that surrounds it among bird people appears to be largly
emotional and unjustified. Reasonable caution is the key. Just as in
any other aspect of bird care it is important to be aware of what you
are doing whenever the birds are in a position to get into ANYTHING, or
be harmed, and to take precautions to protect them.

--
TA
FAW

"Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E.***enson

Visit our web page at
http://www.moonsgarden.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html

by **Mamabir** » Fri, 04 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Fred gets a standing ovation !!!!!!!!!!!
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://www.moonsgarden.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"What are YOU lookin' at?" Wicka, Congo African Grey
---

Quote:

> > It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> > long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware
(this
> > includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> > moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> > off...always HUMAN error.

Quote:

> He asked for specifics, not emotion. You can also find plenty of horror
> stories of drownings, ***s, crushings, and a wide variety of
> poisoning from many sources. the only way anyone can be 100% sure they
> will never harm their bird through an accident is to NEVER have a bird.
> Off the top of my head the ways birds have died, or were seriously
> injured through accident on the various lists I'm on:

> Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
> something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
> number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.

> Poisonings - other than PTFE - includes scented candles, cleaning
> solvent, bleach/ammonia cleaners being accidently mixed, toxic plants,
> furniture polish, brake fluid, glue.

> ***s - Vacuum cleaner, lawn mower, weed eater, sewing machine,
> knives

> Drownings - toilets, sincs, water glass, coffee cup, bath tub, wading
> pool, ornamental fountain, washing machine.

> Misc - boiling water, open oven, electric stove burner, gas stove
> burner, malfunctioning gas stove, malfunctioning furnace, cloths dryer,
> electrical cords, windows, mirrors, ropes, strings, various toys

> In fact I have only heard of a single verified case of teflon poisoning
> in the past two years and a couple of "consistant with" cases. Teflon
> is a known, and very deadly, poison under certain conditions but the
> hysteria that surrounds it among bird people appears to be largly
> emotional and unjustified. Reasonable caution is the key. Just as in
> any other aspect of bird care it is important to be aware of what you
> are doing whenever the birds are in a position to get into ANYTHING, or
> be harmed, and to take precautions to protect them.

> --
> TA
> FAW

> "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E.***enson

> Visit our web page at
> http://www.moonsgarden.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html

by **I R A Agg** » Fri, 04 Jun 1999 04:00:00

+ Fred gets a standing ovation !!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely.

James

by **SBREA** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>ds is if the humans in the house have never made a mistake in their
>entire lives and there is no chance they'll make one overheating a pan.

>This type of death is horrific and painful, don't take any chances.

you said this perfectly. AMEN!! Don't Ever take a chance with teflon. I too
have heard many horror stories. It is an accident waiting to happen,

by **SBREA** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
>something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
>number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.

don't forget flighted birds flying into paddle fans. My vet says he sees alot
of this and it's not pretty

by **Liz** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

well said! We used to have a fantastic ad on about a woman who leaves oil
on the stove while she answers the phone and then sets the kitchen on fire.
If you rush off to answer the phone as soon as it rings, rather than taking
stuff off the stove first, you are a dimwit. My mum taught me that when I
was 4.

We used teflon for months before we found out it was toxic. We always put
our bird in his cage when we are cooking anyway (so he doesn't get curious
and cook his toes, and it isn't that hard to open the window. And I make a
pretty concerted effort not to burn my food, as a general rule.

There's common sense and there is hysteria.

But that is just my opinion.

Liz

Quote:

> > It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> > long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
> > includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> > moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> > off...always HUMAN error.

> He asked for specifics, not emotion. You can also find plenty of horror
> stories of drownings, ***s, crushings, and a wide variety of
> poisoning from many sources. the only way anyone can be 100% sure they
> will never harm their bird through an accident is to NEVER have a bird.
> Off the top of my head the ways birds have died, or were seriously
> injured through accident on the various lists I'm on:

> Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
> something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
> number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.

> Poisonings - other than PTFE - includes scented candles, cleaning
> solvent, bleach/ammonia cleaners being accidently mixed, toxic plants,
> furniture polish, brake fluid, glue.

> ***s - Vacuum cleaner, lawn mower, weed eater, sewing machine,
> knives

> Drownings - toilets, sincs, water glass, coffee cup, bath tub, wading
> pool, ornamental fountain, washing machine.

> Misc - boiling water, open oven, electric stove burner, gas stove
> burner, malfunctioning gas stove, malfunctioning furnace, cloths dryer,
> electrical cords, windows, mirrors, ropes, strings, various toys

> In fact I have only heard of a single verified case of teflon poisoning
> in the past two years and a couple of "consistant with" cases. Teflon
> is a known, and very deadly, poison under certain conditions but the
> hysteria that surrounds it among bird people appears to be largly
> emotional and unjustified. Reasonable caution is the key. Just as in
> any other aspect of bird care it is important to be aware of what you
> are doing whenever the birds are in a position to get into ANYTHING, or
> be harmed, and to take precautions to protect them.

> --
> TA
> FAW

> "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E.***enson

> Visit our web page at
> http://www.moonsgarden.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html

by **Alex Clayt** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Ditto well said Fred. These kind of "stories" will probably always be
with us. They just get re hashed over and over again by people who have
no clue but once they hear something will spend years re telling it.
---------------------------------

won't overheat it, think again Fred gets a standing ovation
!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Mama

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.

Quote:

>unknown

by **parrotpar..** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> you said this perfectly. AMEN!! Don't Ever take a chance with teflon.
I too
> have heard many horror stories. It is an accident waiting to happen,

Thanks! I'm glad someone doesn't think this is just hysteria. Here are a
few refs for those who need scientific sources, followed by a true
story...

(I'm not sure how listing every awful way for a bird to die in the home
justifies endangering them in one more way. I believe in bird proofing
homes and ask each new owner to follow these guidelines before taking
home one of my birds. I shudder to think that they are being crushed,
mutilated, drowned, burned...and that some people think that's the way
it just is.)

Blandford TB, Seamon PJ, Hughes R, Pattison M, Wilderspin MP. "A case of
polytetrafluoroethylene poisoning in***atiels
accompanied by polymer fume fever in the owner." Veterinary
Record, 1975, V.96, No. 8, p.175-176.

Duff P. "Acute inhalant toxicosis of cagebirds." Veterinary
Record, 1997, V. 141, No. 4, p. 107.

Ehrsam H. ["Fatal poisoning of small pet birds following
accidental overheating of cooking pans lined with
polytetrafluorethylene."] Schweiz Arch Tierheilkd
(Switzerland), 1969, V. 111, No. 4, p. 181-186.

Forbes NA, Jones D. "PTFE toxicity in birds." Veterinary
Record, 1997, V. 140, N. 19, p. 512.

Holt PE. "PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene) toxicity in birds."
Veterinary Record, 1997, V. 141, No. 7, p. 180.

Lumeij JT. ["Risk for pet birds following exposure to burn
products of pans coated with PTEF and butter."] Tijdschr
Diergeneeskd (Netherlands), 1997, Vol. 122, No. 24, p. 720.

Stoltz JH, Galey F, Johnson B. "Sudden death in ten
psittacine birds associated with the operation of a self-cleaning oven."
Veterinary and Human Toxicology, 1992, Vol. 34, No. 5, p.
420-421.

Temple WA, Edwards IR, Bell SJ. "Poly (polymer) fume fever -
two fatal cases (cage birds)." New Zealand Veterinary
Journal, 1985, Vol. 33, No. 3, p. 30.

Temple WA, Edwards IR, Bell SJ. "Poly fume fever - two fatal
cases (poisoning of Psittaciformes by fumes from heated teflon
saucepans)." Australian Veterinary Practitioner, 1985, Vol.
15, No. 2, p. 66.

Wells RE. "Fatal toxicosis in pet birds caused by an
overheated cooking pan lined with polytetrafluoroethylene." Journal of
the American Veterinary Medical Association, 1983, Vol. 182,
No. 11, p. 1248-1250.

Wells RE, Slocombe RF, Trapp AL. "Acute toxicosis of
budgerigars (Melopsittacus undulatus) caused by pyrolysis products
from heated polytetrafluoroethylene: clinical study."
American Journal of Veterinary Research, 1982, Vol. 43, No. 7, p.
1238-1242.

Wells RE, Slocombe RF. "Acute toxicosis of budgerigars
(Melopsittacus undulatus) caused by pyrolysis products from heated
polytetrafluoroethylene: microscopic study." American
Journal of Veterinary Medicine, Vol. 43, No. 7, p. 1243-1248.
----
"I just lost my Kola Bird (he was a Yellow Cheek Amazon) to Teflon
poisoning. I came home from work and was heating up some water for a cup
of hot cocoa. I forgot about the water on the stove. A while later I
heard my boy fall off of his perch, but I didn't hear anything else so
I went to investigate. He was sitting on the bottom of the cage with his
head kind of bobbing back and forth. In less than five minutes, he was
dying in my arms. It was the saddest thing watching my friend of
twenty-one years take his last breath in my arms. Please pass this piece
on so that maybe another death can be prevented. It hurts real bad."

Sent via Deja.com http://www.moonsgarden.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

by **Kevin Ch** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> (I'm not sure how listing every awful way for a bird to die in the
> home justifies endangering them in one more way. I believe in bird

While I can understand Fred's point of view, and the importance of the
non-PTFE aspects of birdproofing a home, I think you make an important
point here. Care should be taken to not step on a bird, just as care
should be taken to not overheat PTFE. But just because you CAN step
on a bird, doesn't mean you should ignore the PTFE danger. (And if
you CAN step on a bird, something's wrong -- are you not watching your
bird when she's out?)

People who write, "I heard yadda yadda about Teflon cookware, is it
true?" should be pointed to a FAQ somewhere, that discusses what
happens when PTFE is heated to its outgassing temperature, and how
easily and quickly cookware can reach that temperature (you answer the
phone or the door and it's done). People should be disciplined enough
to pay attention when using PTFE-coated cookware (they should remove
it from heat before answering the phone, and they should not put it on
another burner!), and if they don't have that discipline then they
should be discouraged from having PTFE-coated cookware (or discouraged
from having birds).

Of course, the same discipline should be applied to other things, like
keeping the toilet covered.

Kevin

--

http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

by **CricketR** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
>(I'm not sure how listing every awful way for a bird to die in the home
>justifies endangering them in one more way.

I agree. Some folks will rationalize and rationalize this though, Not till they
actually hold a dying bird, as I did, on Christmas Day no less, does it hit
home. Can you yank out your toilet and toss it away? Not likely. Can you
substitute stainless or cast iron for teflon? Very easily. Teflon use is
dangerous, period. (Smoking is too, try telling that to some smokers and they
may tell you their 80 year old father is still puffing away! Rationalization at
work!!) Some few may get away with using it, for the time being but I can not
see the gamble being worth my amazons lives, or my smallest finch's.
Cricket

by **SBREA** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>Thanks! I'm glad someone doesn't think this is just hysteria. Here are a
>few refs for those who need scientific sources, followed by a true
>story...

To use teflon is to tempt fate! My birds are too precious to me to EVER say
about any danger 'that's just the way it is". This is not to say nothing will
ever happen here but any KNOWN visible or potential risk is eliminated
immediately. One has to be constantly on red alert with these creatures.

by **Mary** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Hey Fred, you missed one. Avocado poisoning. I'm sure you recall long
threads on this from time to time over the years.

Great info! Better save this msg the topic will come up again soon!

--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Home Page "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"