Moon's Graden

I have two parakeets. One has its wings clipped.  I was told from several
sources to have the bird's wings clipped without ever finding out why.  I
feel sad for the bird, although he makes me mad when he buzzes my head in
defiance, sometimes.  How can I justify taking away the birds freedom to be?
Can someone give me a good reason.  Does clipping of wings serve me or does
it actually benefit the bird?
PaulF

Do you have mirrors or glass windows in your house?   There's a good
reason, right there.

-Trou

That's too bad that they didn't tell you why you should clip wings. It
primarily will prevent your bird from flying out the door and most likely
dying. It has happened to me as a toddler;.funny I still can't forget my bird
flying away after mom took him outside to clean his cage. It also  will prevent
him from flying into open toilets, should one forget to shut the lid, or flying
into dangerous things in the kitchen like things on the stove or a sink full of
water. It also prevents them from flying into mirrors, walls and windows.
However, all this  depends on if the bird received a "good clip" and how
deligient owners are with their birds. Some people can keep their birds with
their wings grown out, because they are EXTREMELY careful. Cutting their wings
also makes it tremendously more easy to hand train him since he is going to
rely on you, he will not be able to escape and say "To heck with this guy...
I'm outta here!"

Cricket

Both.... but mainly it benefits the bird because its a means of keeping
him safe from injury, escape or death.
Some people are able to have flighted birds because they know how to "bird
proof" their homes. However, circumstances and conditions in each
individuals home would dictate whether or not a bird owner can
successfully provide a safe environment for a flighted bird.
Personally, I'm not willing to take chances with my birds... all of them
are clipped. I don't view it as "taking away their freedom" ... I view it
as a means of providing them with a safe and secure future because *I*
have control over where they go and what they get into.
--
Mama
-----
"Mamabird's Nest"
Visit my nest and meet my birds!
http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
~The Book of Winged Memories~
(Write a memorial tribute to your bird)

Small birds like yours can often learn thier way around the inside of a
house very well. If he has learned what a window is and does not crash
into them your ok there. There are other hazards as Jack brought up you
have to be willing to deal with. larger birds are in more danger because
they just are not as graceful in a small area and will crash into and
knock things over. A Keet can land on pretty much any thing such as a
lamp where as a larger bird would be more likely to knock it over. If
you are willing to bird proof your house and only allow the bird out
when you are home it would be ok. It comes down to a matter of choice
and how much effort you are willing to put forth to make the bird safe.
______       ________         ___________
Group: rec.pets.birds Date: Mon, Jan 18, 1999, 9:02am  From:

I have two parakeets. One has its wings clipped. I was told from several
sources to have the bird's wings clipped without ever finding out why. I
feel sad for the bird, although he makes me mad when he buzzes my head
in defiance, sometimes. How can I justify taking away the birds freedom
to be? Can someone give me a good reason. Does clipping of wings serve
me or does it actually benefit the bird?
PaulF

"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better
still to be a live lion. And usually easier."

Funny that I haven't seen anyone post a reply addressing the flock
hierarchy.  From what I've read and been told, by leaving the budgie
flighted, you are giving him *** over you, because he can just fly
away when he wants to, and you are not in control.  In a flock situation,
that would make him the "flock leader."  However, a budgie is not
conditioned, instinctively, to be a flock leader in a house, so by putting
him into that position, you actually increase the stress on him.  He is
actually emotionally happier with you in control, because that takes the
responsibility off of him.  (I am anthropormorphising (and misspelling, I'm
sure) here a bit, but you get the idea.)  I am sure there are behaviourists
on this list who can explain it much better than I can.  Hopefully, one of
them will come to my rescue! <g>

I have had flighted tiels and non-flighted tiels, and the non-flighted are
definitely the calmer of the two.  They are also friendlier and more
interactive, perhaps because they know that you are in control of
everything, and they can just relax and not have to worry about the flock's
safety. (When I say non-flighted, btw, I mean they can only fly for short
distances before losing altitude.  I have yet to see a clip that totally
grounds a***atiel, and I imagine it is the same for a budgie!)

  \|/

^( )^          spector had a little bird, a tiel hen named Merlot
_||_          and everywhere that spector went, the hen was sure to go!

My pet budgies are clipped but they still fly pretty well.  They can fly
across the room with no problem, they just can't gain altitude or a lot of
speed.  Much safer than full flight IMO, but they still get the exercise and
have the 'freedom.'  Of course, if they got out of the house like this, I've
no doubt a good wind would help them get far, far away.  They don't leave
the living room, which has a 'safety door' of hardware cloth and wood.

Nita

http://ni3d.homestead.com/nitaspages/nitasbirdsheet.html
Nita's Nest, with "Beginning with Birds" basic care sheet.

Several members of this ng have provided excellent rationales for their choices
regarding this question and I can add little without asking questions of my
own, viz:

Are these parakeets 'budgies'?
Are they cagemates?
What is your experience with the parakeet that is full of feather?

I have a male IRN (indian ringneck parakeet) who is clipped.  My reasons for
this have already been given by others, not to mention the fact that I
sometimes take him out of doors with me.  But I have been told by more than a
few breeders that, if I brought him together with an IRN hen, I should have the
hen clipped and full-flight the***.  Insofar as the female in this species is
naturally *** (and can be aggressive), clipping the hen exclusively can
help the male overcome his natural fear of the female (as well as escape
dangerous situations which might arise during the introductory phase).  I have
no intentions of breeding my pet, but I don't know your situation and, hence my
questions.

We had unclipped budgies when I was a small boy and we came home from the store
one day to find them on the sofa with their necks broken.  Obviously we
shouldn't have left them unattended, especially at dusk.  On the other hand, I
have unclipped lovebirds who, for one or two hours a day, experience a cage
roughly the size of my house.  They know my house extremely well and, although
I keep most doors closed (especially the bathrooms), they have had no problems
with the windows or mirrors and basically move from fave spot #1 to fave spot
#2 to..., well, you get the idea.  I check on them from time to time, mainly
because lb hens are voracious chewers and I want to keep my furniture and mail.

If you have allowed your unclipped parakeet to fly about your house, you
probably already know what you need to do.

Finally, if these birds are cagemates and excepting the aforementioned breeding
situation, I am not sure that having one bird clipped and one flighted is a
very good idea.  I can't prove it, but I think the flighted bird would
naturally feel *** and the clipped bird ***, so that you might
experience behavi***problems with these birds down the road.  I always want
cagemates to feel they are 'peers' and would want their flying status to be the
same.  Even my closely bonded lbs will 'squabble' from time to time and I
wouldn't want one to have a decided advantage over the others.

Thanks for bearing with the verbosity.

Best wishes,

John

remove 'nospam' from email address for private replies.

We all agree that we want to keep our birds safe and healthy.  Many of
us disagree on the best way to do that.  I choose to allow my birds to
be fully flighted and not kept in cages.  I take them outdoors on
occasion too.  I want them to know what home looks like from the
outside.  I've had birds "escape" from the house, but never had one
leave or even have to hunt for it.  You have to consider your particular
birds and your house.  Reguardless of what you do there is always danger
for your birds.  If they are kept in cages they can be harmed from lack
of exercise or get hung up in the cage or their toys.  If left free to
climb and run around the floor there is a chance of their being stepped
on or mauled if a cat, dog, or other animal get's in your house.  If
they are flighted they can fly away if a door or window is left open or
get into something which could kill them if you leave such things
around.  

In my case I have six assorted parrots ranging from macaws to a ringneck
parakeet.  None have a problem with windows or mirrors although the U2
flew into a window twice shortly after he joined me. He'd been caged
most of his life and hadn't learned about such things.  He hasn't hit
anything since.  Not having birds flightworthy is more protection for
your house more than for the birds.   Flying birds will perch where they
like, chew the furniture and moulding, and make messes.  Personally I
consider that part of living with birds.  There's no question for me
that the birds prefer to have their flight capability and are more self
assured and affectionate because of it.  The question is whether you can
accept them having that much freedom.

Just now Tony (a white front amazon) landed on my shoulder.  He just
wants to be with me so he flew in from the living room.  For me the
birds are companions, not posessions.  I don't believe it's my place to
clip their wing feathers off.  In my home I believe they are safer and
happier being able to fly.

Lou Boyd

IT DOES BENEFIT THE BIRDS.  IF THEY GET OUT YOUR FRONT DOOR HOW WOULD YOU
FEEL?  CAN YOUR BIRDS TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES? DO THEY KNOW HOW TO HUNT FOR
FOOD? CAN THEY FIGHT OFF OTHERS WILD BIRDS WHEN THEY ARE ATTACKED.  STRONG
QUESTIONS, AREN'T THEY.  SO GO AHEAD AND CLIP THOSE WINGS.  THEY GET USED TO
NOT BEING ABLE TO FLY.

Hi Paul,

Clipping serves you both, in the long run you'll be glad you clipped your
bird's wings. But don't clip all the flights all at once, do a couple
flights a week, starting from the outside.  When you're satisfied with your
bird's degree of flight or flightlessness, stop there.  I say this only
because I took a bird from flying all over the place one day, to not flying
at all.  We were both depressed for weeks and he was almost as much a
hazzard to himself as when he was recklessly flying.  After two years, he's
still flightless, I'm glad now I clipped his wings.

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This is a very controversial question. Half the people will say YES and half
will say NO.
Clipping keeps the bird from hurting itself by flying into walls, and
windows, or onto a hot stove, or out an open door or window.
It's also easier to train them when they don't have too much freedom.
My Pionus would fly across the room and land on my head. I would put him
back, and walk away, and he would do it again...Finally I had to clip him to
keep him where I wanted him to stay.
Clipping benefits the owner, as well as the bird...Some disagree.
It's a personal choice.

Carol-

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