Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

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Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Hartigan » Fri, 22 Jul 1994 00:48:02



My precious Laverne, the Reptilian Queen of Luxury, doesn't seem to be
particularly interested in anything but carrots, collard greens and kale.
Won' touch fruit.  Any ideas on how to spice up the cuisine?
 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Mon, 25 Jul 1994 10:27:01



Quote:
(HartiganDK) writes:
>>My precious Laverne, the Reptilian Queen of Luxury, doesn't seem to be
>>particularly interested in anything but carrots, collard greens and
kale.
>>Won' touch fruit.  Any ideas on how to spice up the cuisine?

   Yeah.  Quit giving in to her!!!!
   Igs are real good at training their humans to give them what they want
to eat.  All too often that translates into food that is recognizable to
them as food, or foods they may like but that are not good for them.
   Igs are like dogs - they will "starve" themselves for several days
until that two-legged sap caves in and gives 'em what they're used to.
   You ig absolutely needs a wider variety of vegetables and greens - kale
and it's relatives (broccoli. brussels sprouts, etc) should be fed only
sparingly.  Check back in older posts - there's been lots of discussion
about foods and food preparation; the key is make it small and mix it
thoroughly together so they can't pick anything out.
   If you want a care and diet packet, you can send me an SASE 6x9" $.75
to:
Melissa Kaplan, RepEnvirEd, 6366 Commerce Blvd #216, Rohnert Park CA
94928.  After you read through it you can always email me with any
questions...
  Melissa
 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by DAVE ROSSE » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 02:19:00


Quote:


>(HartiganDK) writes:

>>>My precious Laverne, the Reptilian Queen of Luxury, doesn't seem to be
>>>particularly interested in anything but carrots, collard greens and
>kale.
>>>Won' touch fruit.  Any ideas on how to spice up the cuisine?
>   Yeah.  Quit giving in to her!!!!
>   Igs are real good at training their humans to give them what they want
>to eat.  

yep, such is the case with my ig also.  try dicing up your regular diet really
small and mixing it with equally sized pieces of the new diet (spinach, dande-
lion, zucchini would be some good additions).  Laverve won't have any choice
but to eat her new stuff, and she'll probably come to like it once she tries it.
Over the course of a week, put decreasing amounts of the old food in the bowl,
and increasing amounts of the new stuff.  Laverne will get the idea, though
she may do her best to make you feel guilty first . . .

********************************************************************************

Dave Rossell                               "When you lay your dreams to rest,

                                            but it's hard to get enough."
                                                -David Wilcox

********************************************************************************

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Jonathan Hurwi » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 04:00:46


:    You ig absolutely needs a wider variety of vegetables and greens - kale
: and it's relatives (broccoli. brussels sprouts, etc) should be fed only
: sparingly.  

am i wrong??  i was told that broccoli has one of the best calcium to
something or other ratios and was a really good vegetable to regularly feed
igs.

--
jonathan steven hurwitz

human services research institute               phone: 617.876.0426
2336 massachusetts avenue                       fax:   617.492.7401

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:26:02



Quote:

>> (spinach, dandelion, zucchini would be some good additions).

   NOooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!  No spinach - it blocks the body's ability to
metabolize dietary calcium and contains oxalic acid which causes visceral
gout.
   Zuchinni, like red and green leaf lettuce, cucumbers, watermelon,
tomatoes and other such food that humans use as diet (as in "to lose
weight") is NOT a food you want to feed an iguana.  Igs don't have very
big stomachs so you want to fill it with foods that will give you the
biggest bang for the nutritional buck.  So to speak.  Stomach size IS the
reason why you want to prepare the food in vvvverrrry small pieces
(shredded or grated) - that way they can fit more of it into their
stomach, and it will be digested more efficiently and completely, enabling
them to derive more nutrition from it than from larger chunks of food.
   Melissa
 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:30:03



Quote:
Hurwitz) writes:
>>am i wrong??  i was told that broccoli has one of the best calcium to>>
>>something or other ratios and was a really good vegetable to regularly
>>feed igs.

    No, you aren't wrong.  You were told what the current popular
literature says.  Unfortunately, it hasn't kept up with veterinary
nutritional findings - and human nutrition, for that matter.  Excessive
amounts do cause thyroid dysfunction.  As to the amount of calcium, that
varies from crop to crop, enough so that if you look at several different
nutrition books, you will see very different nutrient levels reflected.
   There are other foods which are as high and higer in calcium which do
not post the same dangers as do these cruciferous veggies.  So there is no
need to rely on them as the only good source of dietary calcium.  Use it
as a treat IN ADDITION to the regular diet (I am referring to my diet
here!) and it will not cause a problem.  Feed it as a main component of
the diet, and you will have a problem.
   Melissa
 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by DAVE ROSSE » Thu, 28 Jul 1994 12:37:00


Quote:



>>> (spinach, dandelion, zucchini would be some good additions).
>   NOooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!  No spinach - it blocks the body's ability to
>metabolize dietary calcium and contains oxalic acid which causes visceral
>gout.
>   Zuchinni, like red and green leaf lettuce, cucumbers, watermelon,
>tomatoes and other such food that humans use as diet (as in "to lose
>weight") is NOT a food you want to feed an iguana.  Igs don't have very
>big stomachs so you want to fill it with foods that will give you the
>biggest bang for the nutritional buck.  So to speak.  Stomach size IS the
>reason why you want to prepare the food in vvvverrrry small pieces
>(shredded or grated) - that way they can fit more of it into their
>stomach, and it will be digested more efficiently and completely, enabling
>them to derive more nutrition from it than from larger chunks of food.
>   Melissa

Wow, this is the first I've heard of spinach and zucchini being a problem for
igs, and I've had sicard for three years now.  Neither Vosjoli nor the
Chicago Herp Society nor the Midwest Bird and *** Animal Hospital mention
either of those foods as a problem.  In fact they recommended them!  I'm not
saying you're wrong, I believe you, but I'd just like a bit more info and some
confirmation from other folks.  Does spinach affect people the same way, or is
your info based on human physiology?

Since it seems that Sicard's favorite foods, and ones I thought were good for
him are out, I'd like some suggestions on good alternatives.  How are
dandelion or turnip greens?  I've stayed clear of Kale and Collard because of
the great debate.  What do you feed your ig, Melissa?  

********************************************************************************

Dave Rossell                               "When you lay your dreams to rest,

                                            but it's hard to get enough."
                                                -David Wilcox

********************************************************************************

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by RBISCH » Fri, 29 Jul 1994 03:50:01



Quote:
(DAVE ROSSELL) writes:

No spinach???? I too have been feeding spinach on the advice of several
books and herp experts??  Whats the debate on Kale and collard greens?
Have never heard they are a problem either? thanks, robin
 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Laura Corri » Sat, 30 Jul 1994 07:59:36


Quote:


>(DAVE ROSSELL) writes:

>No spinach???? I too have been feeding spinach on the advice of several
>books and herp experts??  Whats the debate on Kale and collard greens?
>Have never heard they are a problem either? thanks, robin

Do not feed spinach to iguanas.  A small amount for other animals (e.g.
turtles and humans) is okay, but I personally avoid it.  I first heard
about the dangers of spinach from my vet (specializes in ***s, incl.
reptiles) about 2-1/2 years ago.  It contributed to the death of my
beloved iguana, Ada.   I have never heard anything negative about collards.
In fact, all my reptiles get them.  Can anyone shed any light on this?

--

North Miami, Florida

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Sat, 30 Jul 1994 02:43:09



writes:

Quote:
>>Whats the debate on Kale and collard greens? Have never heard they are a
>>>problem either?

   Kale is a cruciferous veggie, related to broccoli, brussels sprouts,
bok choy, cabbage and cauliflower.  All of these foods, when fed as a
primary source of food -- to humans and iguanas -- causes hypothyroidism.
This slows the metabolism, causing lethargy (incorrectly assumed by too
many ig owners as "tame") and retarded / stunted growth.  Some  of the
latter is also caused by the lethargy and by the fact that hypothyroid
also causes muscle aches and pains - the ig wouldn't feel like moving even
if it had the energy to do so.  What is deceptive about this condition is
that not only do owners think they have tame igs (and are greatly
surprised several months after they switch their igs to a proper diet),
but the igs look good - buff, well rounded, real green.

Quote:
>>>I too have been feeding spinach on the advice of several books and herp

experts?
    It is a shame that the most recent books do not reflect the veterinary
nutrition findings - as I indicated in another post, a lot of information
out there available to vets is just plain wrong - it reflects the state of
understanding 10 years ago (protein sources, levels, water requirements,
etc.).  A vet I know back east recently sent me an article on ig care that
was published in _The Compendium_ veterinary journal.  Not only was the
article full of misinformation, which was scary enough, it was followed by
a short list of questions; when the vet sends in the correct answers
(according, of course, to the info in the article) he or she then earns
CEU's.  Most vets don't even know that the ARAV exists, or the JSEAM.  Let
alone Centers for Science in the Public Interest, UC Berkeley Wellness
Letter and Environmental Nutrition newsletter....

   Remember that the most popular and widely available book out there on
iguana care still recommends 30% protein, monkey biscuits, feeding ***s
only a couple times a week, and water at and for specific periods of time.
 Two years before he published that book, his previous book said that
iguanas were not social animals and should not be handled....his new book,
published in 1992, says that they are social animals and should be handled
15 minutes a day to tame them.  If this were the case, how come people
keep bringing me their very untame (and not particularly healthy) igs?
    The more igs there are out there, the more that is being learned.
Unfortunately, that information isn't getting into print in enough circles
fast enough to save lives...or even to ensure life spans approaching those
attained in the wild.
   melissa

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Sat, 30 Jul 1994 02:31:10



Quote:
(DAVE ROSSELL) writes:
>>Neither Vosjoli nor the Chicago Herp Society nor the Midwest Bird and
>>*** Animal Hospital mention either of those foods as a problem.

    Frye, Blair, Barten, Boyer and bunches of others do mention them as
problems.  Understand that most vets get their information from sources
who themselves are getting info from old sources; old bad sources.  While
I like much of CHSs Care in Captivity, not their iguana care.

 >>>Does spinach affect people the same way, or is your info based on
human >>>physiology?
   It does....in fact, human nutrition counsellors have been telling
people who eat spinach to eat it during a meal in which they are NOT
consuming the major portion of their calcium for the day, that the two
should be separated by several hours.
   Zuccini, as I believed I mentioned, along with lots of other low
calorie/low nutrient foods should not be fed to iguanas or other
herbivores who have small stomachs and so limited intake capabilities.
   The oxalics in spinach, rhubarb and beets (and other foods) does not
affect people as it does iguanas - we eat much less of those foods in
proportion to our total diet than do igs we feed it too.  Thus the
resultant problems.
   If you are in the Mundelien area, so is Dr. Steve Barten.  He is well
known in *** and reptile vet circles; founder of the Journal of ***
Small Animal Medicine, he is a frequent lecturer at the vet and herp
conferences, and is currently editing Doug Maders new book on reptile
mediciene.  Dr. Barten recently asked permission to distribute my care
sheet to his iguana clients, as have several vets around here where I
live.
   You say you've been feeding Sicard this diet for three years?  How big
is he and how much does he weigh?    I recently aquired 6 year old iguanas
who have been fed similar diets who are far smaller than my 3 year old...
   Melissa

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Sun, 31 Jul 1994 16:31:01



Quote:
Corriss) writes:
>>>Whats the debate on Kale and collard greens?
>>>Have never heard they are a problem either?

     There is no problem with collard greens - they are one of the best
greens you can feed (calcium, carotenes, etc.) with no harmful side
effects.  Kale, on the other hand, is a member of the broccoli family
which, along with it's relatives brussels sprouts, bok choy, cabbage and
cauliflower, causes hypothyroidism - retards growth by slowing the
metabolism, causes muscle and joint aches, lethargy (and hair loss, but
that is not something you have to worry about for your ig!).
  Best greens to feed: colllard, mustard, dandelion, parsley (chopped and
added to veggie salad) and escarole (which gets real slimy after three
days or so...).
   Melissa
 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by mel turn » Mon, 01 Aug 1994 07:25:11


Quote:


>Corriss) writes:
>>>>Whats the debate on Kale and collard greens?
>     There is no problem with collard greens - they are one of the best
>greens you can feed (calcium, carotenes, etc.) with no harmful side
>effects.  Kale, on the other hand, is a member of the broccoli family
>which, along with it's relatives brussels sprouts, bok choy, cabbage and
>cauliflower, causes hypothyroidism - retards growth by slowing the
>metabolism, causes muscle and joint aches, lethargy (and hair loss, but
>that is not something you have to worry about for your ig!).
>  Best greens to feed: colllard, mustard, dandelion, parsley

But collards and mustard are also part of the cabbage/broccoli (etc.) group!
(All are forms of _Brassica_ spp.).   Perhaps they may differ quantitatively
in the proportions of their various contents, (I don't know)  but it would be
remarkable if they were all that different from the others.

MelTurner  Botany Dept., Duke Univ. Durham NC 27708

 
 
 

Variety Suggestions on Ig diet?

Post by Melissa4 » Tue, 02 Aug 1994 15:35:02



Quote:
(mel turner) writes:
>>All are forms of _Brassica_ spp.).   Perhaps they may differ

quantitatively >>in the proportions of their various contents, (I don't
know)  but it would be
Quote:
>>remarkable if they were all that different from the others.

    Different enough nutritionally and in the effects of their components
to make a big difference in growth rate, thyroid function and calcium
metabolism!
   Melissa