Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

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Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Dell G » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:36:46



I am contemplating doing something. I  have snakes that  I have had
for many years. Currently, four of my common corns are well beyond
breeding age and rather than keep  them caged for the rest of their
lives, I am thinking of releasing them  in the general area of the
Okeefenokee Swamp (prime habitat).

Because they are very old and way beyond breeding age (they bred
plenty when they could), I am not  at all worried about them
polluting the resident, wild population with their genetics. They are
also disease free.

My question for those who might actually know (and not for those who
will guess) is will these animals be able  to hunt for themselves at
ages 10 to 15 years, never having had to do it before?

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by JWag » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:28:28


 Another thing  I would wonder is if they would be resistant enough to
native diseases and parasites to live very long in the wild.

JEFF

Quote:

> I am contemplating doing something. I  have snakes that  I have had
> for many years. Currently, four of my common corns are well beyond
> breeding age and rather than keep  them caged for the rest of their
> lives, I am thinking of releasing them  in the general area of the
> Okeefenokee Swamp (prime habitat).

> Because they are very old and way beyond breeding age (they bred
> plenty when they could), I am not  at all worried about them
> polluting the resident, wild population with their genetics. They are
> also disease free.

> My question for those who might actually know (and not for those who
> will guess) is will these animals be able  to hunt for themselves at
> ages 10 to 15 years, never having had to do it before?

--
Jeff Wagner, Corvallis Oregon
1-0-0 Patternless 1-0-0 High Yellow 0-2-0 Albino leopard geckos
1-0-0 Albino Okeetee 1-0-0 Okeetee corn snake
1-0-0 Ornate box turtle
 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by c.wilson1 » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:00:38


Yes they will be able to hunt (its instinctive)

I must agree with Jeff though, the native diseases that your snake have been
kept away from MAY be a problem (it all depends on what genetic lines your
snakes have...i.e. did there forefathers have wild genes thrown in
occasionally in the breeding lines before you bought them?)

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Sean Barr » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:06:55


: I am contemplating doing something. I  have snakes that  I have had
: for many years. Currently, four of my common corns are well beyond
: breeding age and rather than keep  them caged for the rest of their
: lives, I am thinking of releasing them  in the general area of the
: Okeefenokee Swamp (prime habitat).

: Because they are very old and way beyond breeding age (they bred
: plenty when they could), I am not  at all worried about them
: polluting the resident, wild population with their genetics. They are
: also disease free.

How do you know either of those things?  Just because they may not breed
as readily or productively as they used to does not mean they can't breed
at all, and just because they haven't exhibited symptoms does not mean
they're not carrying disease organisms.  If you've had them captive that
long, odds are they've been exposed to all sorts of bugs, some of which
they could be carrying.  You simply cannot prove they're disease-free.

: My question for those who might actually know (and not for those who
: will guess) is will these animals be able  to hunt for themselves at
: ages 10 to 15 years, never having had to do it before?

No one knows that.

What you propose is illegal in a lot of states (I don't know about
Georgia), and for very good reason.  Why not give them to a school, a
junior museum, or a to a newcomer to herpetoculture?  Anything is better
than releasing them.

Sean Barry

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Amy Sern » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:08:03


To me all you are just as bad as the puppy mills that are spitting out
hundreds of puppies a month and then dumping the dogs after a couple of
years because they are useless to them.

What you are basically saying is that you don't have use for these
animals anymore, they are taking up space that breeding animals could be
using so now you just want to dump them to fend for themselves. They
probably won't last a week before a dog, coyote, owl or hawk eats them
for dinner.

I agree with the person that said that you should find a school, etc to
take them.  I am sure that there are reptile rescues around your area.
They gave you that many years of breeding to make you money, the least
you can do is provide them shelter and care.

Quote:

> I am contemplating doing something. I  have snakes that  I have had
> for many years. Currently, four of my common corns are well beyond
> breeding age and rather than keep  them caged for the rest of their
> lives, I am thinking of releasing them  in the general area of the
> Okeefenokee Swamp (prime habitat).

> Because they are very old and way beyond breeding age (they bred
> plenty when they could), I am not  at all worried about them
> polluting the resident, wild population with their genetics. They are
> also disease free.

> My question for those who might actually know (and not for those who
> will guess) is will these animals be able  to hunt for themselves at
> ages 10 to 15 years, never having had to do it before?

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Snak » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:22:44


Sean and Amy

the original post DID say "I am contemplating doing something" Jeff and I
replied in our own opinion..

I think you both have come on a little strong here...

Dell asked a question "would they survive".. Jeff and I said yes but with
our reservations about disease's etc.

If you would like my honest opinion...i agree with you FULLY....they would
be better suited off going to a school for the children to learn about and
interact with first hand, or in fact to a beginer in herpotology (they would
be used to handling etc)

Colin

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Dell G » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:49:12


Quote:
>I think you both have come on a little strong here...

Forget about them. They are imbeciles. Only a few years ago, imbeciles
didn't have access to the net. Now you get this crap. It all started
with aol (***s on line).

The idea that they may not be able to tolerate the parasites, etc.
that they will find in nature is a good one.

My thinking is this: If they can hunt, I'd like to give them a taste
of freedom before they die. A local pet shop has offered to buy them
from me, but that's not what I want to do. Were it me, I'd want to be
released in my old age, if I could take care of myself.

I may do it. What the heck. The get to be free for awhile. They'll be
dead soon anyway. I'll release them in the Spring.

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by SimpleSimo » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:10:56



Quote:

> >I think you both have come on a little strong here...

> Forget about them. They are imbeciles. Only a few years ago, imbeciles
> didn't have access to the net. Now you get this crap. It all started
> with aol (***s on line).

> The idea that they may not be able to tolerate the parasites, etc.
> that they will find in nature is a good one.

> My thinking is this: If they can hunt, I'd like to give them a taste
> of freedom before they die. A local pet shop has offered to buy them
> from me, but that's not what I want to do. Were it me, I'd want to be
> released in my old age, if I could take care of myself.

> I may do it. What the heck. The get to be free for awhile. They'll be
> dead soon anyway. I'll release them in the Spring.

The chances are, if you release the snakes, they will either starve to
death or be killed and eaten almost immediately by predators. Releasing
captive animals into the wild is a reprehensible act, they will not
survive. Get to be free for a while? To suffer and die after you are
through with them? DON'T DO IT! What if your snakes are carrying
something that can wipe out an entire native population? You have no way
of knowing. The entire ecosystem the world over is in enough trouble
without taking the chance of killing off another local population. Send
them to a pet store, sell them or even stick them in the freezer, but
for the sake of the rest of the animals in your area DO NOT RELEASE
CAPTIVE ANIMALS INTO THE WILD!
 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Snake Whisper » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:02:40


Were it me, I'd want to be released in my old age, if I could take care
of myself.
I may do it. What the heck. The get to be free for awhile. They'll be
dead soon anyway. I'll release them in the Spring.>>><<<
ooooooooooooooooooooo
The first sentence says it all. Feeling a bit mortal has colored your
logic. These snakes are not people or babies (but you can't convince ME
of that). It is easy to anthropomorphise, we all do it, but sometimes it
leads to problems, like releasing a CB snake into the wild. So far, you
have been responsible for the LIFE of these snakes, and their age does
NOT negate these responsbilties.

Find some young, responsible herpers (Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc.),
and GIVE them the snakes for Christmas. HOHOHO

ps: offer to help the kids with the snakes.

later, Pete

Plastic box+herp+moist sphagnum moss+hole in lid=whole shed!

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. Learn this, and
teach the Children.

http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/SnakeBusters

http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/REPTILEPARTIES

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Snake Whisper » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:50:55


To me all you are just as bad as the puppy mills that are spitting out
hundreds of puppies a month and then dumping the dogs after a couple of
years because they are useless to them.>>><<<
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The man only asked a valid question, and I think his motives are
well-meaning.
The snakes probably have very lttle chance of surviving.

later, Pete

Plastic box+herp+moist sphagnum moss+hole in lid=whole shed!

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. Learn this, and
teach the Children.

http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/SnakeBusters

http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/REPTILEPARTIES

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Snake Whisper » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:46:03


Those snakes are goners. No learned responses to predators, weather,
habitat, etc.

later, Pete

Plastic box+herp+moist sphagnum moss+hole in lid=whole shed!

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. Learn this, and
teach the Children.

http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/SnakeBusters

http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/REPTILEPARTIES

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Chris McMarti » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:06:56



Quote:
> My thinking is this: If they can hunt, I'd like to give them a taste
> of freedom before they die. A local pet shop has offered to buy them
> from me, but that's not what I want to do. Were it me, I'd want to be
> released in my old age, if I could take care of myself.

You can reason out that kind of thinking, whereas your snakes can't, and
wouldn't know the difference anyway!

Quote:
> I may do it. What the heck. The get to be free for awhile. They'll be
> dead soon anyway. I'll release them in the Spring.

This is a very myopic line of thinking.  Sure, your former pets may "enjoy"
a few months of living in the wild, but at what expense?  They may be the
proverbial smallpox blankets in the eyes of the wild population.

On the other hand, there are scattered efforts to release captive-held
reptiles into the wild:
http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/conmag/1999/08/2.htm

Note that programs like this are executed in highly controlled conditions,
though.  Additionally, the captives were very short-term (just to get from
one locale to the next).

Chris
--
http://www.mcmartinville.com
Last Update 03 DECEMBER 2001!!!

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Kyle » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:13:54



wrotC:DRIVE_E

Quote:
>I am contemplating doing something. I  have snakes that  I have had
>for many years. Currently, four of my common corns are well beyond
>breeding age and rather than keep  them caged for the rest of their
>lives, I am thinking of releasing them  in the general area of the
>Okeefenokee Swamp (prime habitat).

I would add two other factors that should convince you not to release
them into the wild:
1.  This may not apply - but if these snakes have been kept in a room
with other species (especially those that are not from the same area)
they may have been exposed to *** bacteria and/or other parasites.
The fact that they have not shown any symptoms may be due to their
excellent health - I assume that they have been given clean water and
food at all times unlike the situation for a snake in the wild.  If
you release them and their resistence is lowered they may become ill
and become a disease vector to other animals.  This is _not_ something
to take lightly - disease is now known to be an important factor in
population survival for a number of reptiles and amphibian
populations.
2.  I have seen snakes come close to starving themselves because the
riight prey item was not available.  Many of us have resorted to
scenting food items in order to induce normal feeding (and force
feeding if that failed).  If your snakes have been given mice and/or
rats for the entire length of time they have been with you, they may
not recognize other animals as food.  I'm sure that you don't want
them to starve in their freedom, but I wouldn't be shocked if that
were to happen.

I certainly wouldn't release them into the wild under any
circumstances.

kylec

 
 
 

Releasing Captive Breds into the wild

Post by Paul Da » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:59:06


I think a lot of you need lessons in tact, and need to stop harryassing this
person. They had a valid question. There is no neeed to
call this person cruel.

There is no solid evidence that snakes have to learn to know how to hunt.
They are not mammals, it is instinctual. Human being
are the only animals that have to be raised and babied to know how to
survive, and you can't compare snakes to human beings.

Seeing as these are captive-bred snakes, I highly doubt that they have a
disease that could wipe out an entire population, unless
it is a genetic one, which is HIGHLY questionable. I don't think selling
them to a pet store is a good idea either. Generally pet stores
know next to NOTHING about taking care of pets beyond dogs and cats, and I
still see them stumbling to take care of those. I highly suggest
you put it up for sale online, and sell it to another enthusiast for a low
price instead of donating it to an institution that may ignore it.

I think some snake people need to listen to some of the tarantula people
about captive bred animals. A lot of these animals are going
extict in the wild. I am unsure to as if this specific species is (I doubt
it) but reintroducing captive bred individuals to their native homelands
takes character, seeing as how much more these individuals are worth in the
pet industry. This is one animal, and it appearenltly is too old
to breed, so I doubt it will have lasting repercussions. You own this
animal. It doesn't need human intervention, nor human enviorments
to survive. It would take decades and decades of captive breeding
generations to deevolve these animals into domestication, if thats
even possible

Comparing puppies to snakes is also a flaw in logic, puppies are
domesticated, as snakes are not. I highly doubt releasing this one native
snake to the wild is doing anything but giving the snake a feeling of
freedom, if it can even feel that. They aren't releasing them downtown.
I think that anyone who is captive breeding anything is doing a nobel thing,
and just because he doesn't have room for it, doesn't mean they
are a bad person. I see a lot of unexperienced people think of reptiles in
the same sense as they think of their dogs and cats, but it just isn't the
same thing. I don't blaim anyone for this ignorence, it is more about the
number of keepers that really don't know what their talking about giving
advice to someone who is asking a rather advanced question, which is more a
question of conscience then anything else.

I don't keep many snakes. I keep mainly tarantulas and frogs. But I know
enough about snakes and captive breeding to tell you, that I doubt this one
snake
matters. Human beings sometimes overestimate the importance they are to the
animal, and thats fine, but I wouldn't base that on an arguement.

thanks for getting me interested,

Paul Day