Am I Right Or Wrong?

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Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by <bl.. » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:41:01



As i've mentioned in my newbie post, i work at a petshop.  One of the main
reasons i was hired was because i know alot about reptiles and my boss even
said i know more then him.  well i firmly believe hotrocks are bad, they can
develop hotspots and if you think about it a metal coil encased in plastic
shouldnt be trusted at all.  atleast with an undertank heater there is the
bottom of the cage as well as the substrate that separates the animals from
the direct heatsource.  Hotrocks are particularly bad for iguanas because
they are arboreal and bask in the sun so they have more heat receptors on
their back then on their tummy.  also in the wild when a reptile gets on a
rock that was heated by the sun, once the animal comes in contact with the
rock the heat is difused and the animal has to move on and hotrocks give off
a constant heat.  and if you touch a hot rock its gonna be hot, and our body
temp is 98 degrees and most reptiles need the heat in the 80s so the rock is
too hot for em anyways and that leads to thermal burns.

I presented this information in computer printouts as well as the experts
words on hotrocks from www.anapsid.org and pictures of burnt iguanas and my
boss said when they have documented proof, like from scientists and stuff.
Because i was telling customers who were inquiring about hotrocks, the truth
wich led them to not buy them and  a few days later i got called into the
office and my boss and his wife talked to me about it, basically lecturing
and they gave me an ultimatem to either shut up about it or get fired.  he
also said that the hotrocks zoomed makes have a circular coil that runs
through the entire plastic thing, eliminating the hotspots created.

i was cleaning out the anole tank and i found one with a thermal burn on his
bottom, it was scabbed over and lookin icky.  i will bring this too his
attention tomorrow when i go into work.

what are you guys' opinions on this?
__________________________________________________________________ Sharon
Love ICQ#: 19404137 Current ICQ status: + More ways to contact me
__________________________________________________________________

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Huntryder » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:59:02


I'm with you on this one.  I would never use a hot rock with any animal.
Sounds like your boss is more interested in profits than the health and well
being of the animals he sells.

Leanne

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Dendroaspis polylep » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:12:47


Quote:
>what are you guys' opinions on this?

I am with you on this one 100%. By the way where are you located? Maybe I could
talk to your boss if you were in my area.

Why does he have to sell these things in the first place? Why can't he sell
pads instead?

I find most pet store people are ignorant of proper husbandry and are only
interested in profit and not the welfare of the animals they sell.

Kurt Kunze
IPMS/USA Patriot
New England Herpetological Society
http://www.neherp.com

Remove "clothes" to e-mail me

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by <bl.. » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:21:13


i am located in Massena NY, when we were in our little meeting he said he
would try to stock more options on heat like undertank  heaters and such.  i
even suggested and brought to light that he would be makein more money if
the customer has to buy a heat bulb, and a clamplamp because those 2
products costs combined plus tax costs more then a heatrock but he just
shrugged it off.  he also pushed in my face that he has a family to support.
i so wanted to tell him that the halt of selling hotrocks would not put him
in the poor house but i held my tongue. i really need this job, not only
because i love workin with animals and meeting different kinds of reptiles
and gaining more experience in the field but also because i want to open my
own reptile rescue/petshop. i figure id provide a temporary home for abused
and abandoned reptiles and perhaps some birds and rodents and also sell
supplies and foods that they need to keep em well fed and healthy and try to
find new homes for the animals.  the selling of the products would help keep
the animals healthy and fed is the way i figure.


Quote:
> >what are you guys' opinions on this?

> I am with you on this one 100%. By the way where are you located? Maybe I
could
> talk to your boss if you were in my area.

> Why does he have to sell these things in the first place? Why can't he
sell
> pads instead?

> I find most pet store people are ignorant of proper husbandry and are only
> interested in profit and not the welfare of the animals they sell.

> Kurt Kunze
> IPMS/USA Patriot
> New England Herpetological Society
> http://www.neherp.com

> Remove "clothes" to e-mail me

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by jcm » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:31:47


You may just want to 'tweak' your sales approach.  If I were your boss I'd
be happy that you were selling merchandise, no matter what it was.  If
you're sending customers out the door empty handed, however,  then I would
tend to agree with the boss that you're not ringing the register.  You are
not being forced to sell hotrocks, are you?  Give the customer the options
and then help them make a decision.

Your job is to help the customer make an educated decision and to generate
revenue for your employer.   As long as you're doing both, no one has a
right to complain.


Quote:
> i am located in Massena NY, when we were in our little meeting he said he
> would try to stock more options on heat like undertank  heaters and such.
i
> even suggested and brought to light that he would be makein more money if
> the customer has to buy a heat bulb, and a clamplamp because those 2
> products costs combined plus tax costs more then a heatrock but he just
> shrugged it off.  he also pushed in my face that he has a family to
support.
> i so wanted to tell him that the halt of selling hotrocks would not put
him
> in the poor house but i held my tongue. i really need this job, not only
> because i love workin with animals and meeting different kinds of reptiles
> and gaining more experience in the field but also because i want to open
my
> own reptile rescue/petshop. i figure id provide a temporary home for
abused
> and abandoned reptiles and perhaps some birds and rodents and also sell
> supplies and foods that they need to keep em well fed and healthy and try
to
> find new homes for the animals.  the selling of the products would help
keep
> the animals healthy and fed is the way i figure.



> > >what are you guys' opinions on this?

> > I am with you on this one 100%. By the way where are you located? Maybe
I
> could
> > talk to your boss if you were in my area.

> > Why does he have to sell these things in the first place? Why can't he
> sell
> > pads instead?

> > I find most pet store people are ignorant of proper husbandry and are
only
> > interested in profit and not the welfare of the animals they sell.

> > Kurt Kunze
> > IPMS/USA Patriot
> > New England Herpetological Society
> > http://www.neherp.com

> > Remove "clothes" to e-mail me

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Luk » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:24:48


I absolutely agree with you.  The best way to use a hot rock to heat a
reptile is to use it to weight down the cord for your halogen lamp
fixture.  If you need suggestions for better heating products, try
Kane heat mats, ceramic clamp lamp fixtures, ceramic heat emitters,
halogen flood lights, those self-balasted mercury vapor bulbs, and
undertank heaters.

Luke

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by DRAG » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:10:37


Try getting a print out of all the research you can on the damage hot rocks do
and show this to your boss.
Also try point out to him that no one will be really intrested in buying a
reptile if they have to immediatly spend a fortune on vets bills because they
have got it home and found out it is damaged by a negligent shop owner.
As well as which if such as say myself or yourself or some other person who
knows about reptiles comes into the store and notices the damage on the reptile
not only may they phone the humane society or ASPCA but they will also leave
empty handed and never come back as well as which they are likely to tell
everyone they know not to bother shopping there.
The power of word of mouth is amazing and can have a devastating effect on
buisness plus many of the alternative heating units available can cost a hell
of a lot more than a heat rock thus pushing up his profit margine hope this
helps best wishes Dragon
 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by <bl.. » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:04:37


i do get the customers to buy stuff but me telling them that hotrocks arent
good and im giving them the reason why they arent good, and that makes em
not buy the hotrocks.  thats what is so wrong according to m y boss is that
the hotrocks arent selling and by me telling the bad things about the
hotrocks makes the store look bad because they use them.  they dont use one
for the iguanas tho, they use a undertank heater, and they use an undertank
heater for the gartersnake.


Quote:
> You may just want to 'tweak' your sales approach.  If I were your boss I'd
> be happy that you were selling merchandise, no matter what it was.  If
> you're sending customers out the door empty handed, however,  then I would
> tend to agree with the boss that you're not ringing the register.  You are
> not being forced to sell hotrocks, are you?  Give the customer the options
> and then help them make a decision.

> Your job is to help the customer make an educated decision and to generate
> revenue for your employer.   As long as you're doing both, no one has a
> right to complain.



> > i am located in Massena NY, when we were in our little meeting he said
he
> > would try to stock more options on heat like undertank  heaters and
such.
> i
> > even suggested and brought to light that he would be makein more money
if
> > the customer has to buy a heat bulb, and a clamplamp because those 2
> > products costs combined plus tax costs more then a heatrock but he just
> > shrugged it off.  he also pushed in my face that he has a family to
> support.
> > i so wanted to tell him that the halt of selling hotrocks would not put
> him
> > in the poor house but i held my tongue. i really need this job, not only
> > because i love workin with animals and meeting different kinds of
reptiles
> > and gaining more experience in the field but also because i want to open
> my
> > own reptile rescue/petshop. i figure id provide a temporary home for
> abused
> > and abandoned reptiles and perhaps some birds and rodents and also sell
> > supplies and foods that they need to keep em well fed and healthy and
try
> to
> > find new homes for the animals.  the selling of the products would help
> keep
> > the animals healthy and fed is the way i figure.



> > > >what are you guys' opinions on this?

> > > I am with you on this one 100%. By the way where are you located?
Maybe
> I
> > could
> > > talk to your boss if you were in my area.

> > > Why does he have to sell these things in the first place? Why can't he
> > sell
> > > pads instead?

> > > I find most pet store people are ignorant of proper husbandry and are
> only
> > > interested in profit and not the welfare of the animals they sell.

> > > Kurt Kunze
> > > IPMS/USA Patriot
> > > New England Herpetological Society
> > > http://www.neherp.com

> > > Remove "clothes" to e-mail me

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Patrick Alexande » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:15:25


Quote:

> what are you guys' opinions on this?

        Yeah, hotrocks are a bad idea... this has been common knowledge in
the herping community for quite a while now.  I'm a bit confused about
your boss, though... if he thinks you know more than he does, what's he
giving you shit about?

        Patrick Alexander

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Patrick Alexande » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:23:23


        It's also worth mentioning that it's silly of your boss to expect
scientists to study products used to caged reptile heating.  Does he
really think scientists have so little to do that they'd waste time and
money on something like this?

        Patrick Alexander

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by fr0gle » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:45:12


Quote:

> i do get the customers to buy stuff but me telling them that hotrocks
arent
> good and im giving them the reason why they arent good, and that makes em
> not buy the hotrocks.  thats what is so wrong according to m y boss is
that
> the hotrocks arent selling and by me telling the bad things about the
> hotrocks makes the store look bad because they use them.  they dont use
one
> for the iguanas tho, they use a undertank heater, and they use an
undertank
> heater for the gartersnake.

Maybe you could tactfully point out to customers that at your pet store,
your first choice is under tank heaters and basking lights, and explain why
they are desireable. It's also probably more acceptable to your bosses to
change your angle from "hotrocks are bad, don't buy them" to "hotrocks have
risks, and they are..<stuff like burns, hot spots, etc> They are not
intended to be used as a primary heat source, but when controlled by a
rheostat can be used on low temperature to safely supplement your primary
heat source".

I also occasionally am placed in a position where I have to sell products
that I don't believe in (non-herp related). However, I try to be a great
source of information for my customers and let them make their decisions
based on facts.

hth
fr0glet

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Snake Whisper » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:10:54


I'm a bit confused about your boss, though... if he thinks you know more
than he does, what's he giving you shit about?
????????????????Patrick Alexander
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because boss-man already PAID for the hot rocks.

later,
Pete
Live by the Golden Rule. Pay it forward.
http://community.webtv.net/SnakeBusters/SnakeBusters

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by ViperSpi » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:03:18


Your are right. Hot rocks have detrimental affects that can injure pets.

You are wrong in excluding these products completely as "harmful" for
customers while employed by this individual. Your job is to represent and
sell the products included in inventory in this store.
That is what you are paid to do while working in this pet shop. If you
believe that there are products that are safer for the customers animals and
bring more money in for your boss, then SELL it. Don't blatantly say that a
particular product is NO GOOD. Additionally, a hot rock with a thermostat is
probably safe, but even so, probably isn't the best option for a heat
source, AND a heat mat can be dangerous as well if not regulated.

Here's how I would approach this:

Customer: "Should I get one of these hot rocks for warmth for my reptile ?"

You: "Although the hot rock does provide heat for you pet, I WOULD RECOMMEND
that you get this heat mat (or proper wattage bulb with heat lamp, etc.)"

Customer: "Well, that's a good suggestion, but the Hot Rock is cheaper"

You: "I can ring you up over here".

Spit

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by Chaosmag » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:18:50


I have a hotrock that my solomon isle skink likes, in one of his hides, but
I wrap it in a washcloth, so he's not actually touching the thing.

Chaosmage


| > i do get the customers to buy stuff but me telling them that hotrocks
| arent
| > good and im giving them the reason why they arent good, and that makes
em
| > not buy the hotrocks.  thats what is so wrong according to m y boss is
| that
| > the hotrocks arent selling and by me telling the bad things about the
| > hotrocks makes the store look bad because they use them.  they dont use
| one
| > for the iguanas tho, they use a undertank heater, and they use an
| undertank
| > heater for the gartersnake.
|
| Maybe you could tactfully point out to customers that at your pet store,
| your first choice is under tank heaters and basking lights, and explain
why
| they are desireable. It's also probably more acceptable to your bosses to
| change your angle from "hotrocks are bad, don't buy them" to "hotrocks
have
| risks, and they are..<stuff like burns, hot spots, etc> They are not
| intended to be used as a primary heat source, but when controlled by a
| rheostat can be used on low temperature to safely supplement your primary
| heat source".
|
| I also occasionally am placed in a position where I have to sell products
| that I don't believe in (non-herp related). However, I try to be a great
| source of information for my customers and let them make their decisions
| based on facts.
|
| hth
| fr0glet
|
|

 
 
 

Am I Right Or Wrong?

Post by <bl.. » Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:38:46


just because the store uses hotrocks doesnt make it right and the customers
deserve to know the good and the bad of every product.  and i wouldnt end
the conversation with "ill ring you up over here"  id go onto tell the
customer about the advantages of say like a heat lamp or uth.  that wouldnt
make me a very good salesperson if i gave up that easily.  just like those
bulbs that emit both heat and uvb, they are really expensive but they are
worth the money because it will save you money because u dont have to
replace them as often as other bulbs.  the animals deserve the best and
safest care possible, its the least we should do seein as how we took them
from the wild and stuck em in cages.

Quote:
> Your are right. Hot rocks have detrimental affects that can injure pets.

> You are wrong in excluding these products completely as "harmful" for
> customers while employed by this individual. Your job is to represent and
> sell the products included in inventory in this store.
> That is what you are paid to do while working in this pet shop. If you
> believe that there are products that are safer for the customers animals
and
> bring more money in for your boss, then SELL it. Don't blatantly say that
a
> particular product is NO GOOD. Additionally, a hot rock with a thermostat
is
> probably safe, but even so, probably isn't the best option for a heat
> source, AND a heat mat can be dangerous as well if not regulated.

> Here's how I would approach this:

> Customer: "Should I get one of these hot rocks for warmth for my reptile
?"

> You: "Although the hot rock does provide heat for you pet, I WOULD
RECOMMEND
> that you get this heat mat (or proper wattage bulb with heat lamp, etc.)"

> Customer: "Well, that's a good suggestion, but the Hot Rock is cheaper"

> You: "I can ring you up over here".

> Spit