Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

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Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Bart » Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:00:00



1.  Are you sure the eggs were viable to begin with?
2.  Is the ink metallic based or otherwise toxic?  I would imagine it could
seep through.
3.  Did the last clutch grow mold before perishing?  maybe they were too
damp.

Sorry, I don't know anything about these snakes in particular to be of more
help.  Good luck.

Bart
1.1.36 bearded dragon

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Rick Nels » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:49:12


Hi all,

I own a regular male corn (Malachai) and an Okatee (or is it Okeetee?)
female (Emily) and they have mated a couple times.  Both times, all
the eggs died.

The first time, she laid them in a box and it was a couple days before
I found them so they were all dried up.

The next time, I got to the eggs right away and put them in a high
humidity cage with a damp vermiculite base and a damp paper towel
covering them, misted down a couple times a day, 12 hr light cycles,
74deg at night and around 80deg in the daytime.  This batch turned
greenish blue (possibly ink from the paper towel) and rotted.

I've looked and looked but haven't been able to find any good info on
exactly what temperature, humidity, and ground dampness to use.  I'm
not even sure if vermiculite is best for corn snakes.

If anybody could point me to a good reference, I would appriciate it.

Also, does anyone know if mixing an Okatee with a regular corn would
increase the chance of mutated offspring?  I've been really looking
forward to getting a ghost corn or an anerythristic out of one of
these batches.

Thanks,
--Rick
This post is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of current or past employers.

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Rick Nels » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

>1.  Are you sure the eggs were viable to begin with?

No.  How can you tell?

Quote:
>2.  Is the ink metallic based or otherwise toxic?  I would imagine it could
>seep through.

Not toxic to humans I'm sure.  It was just that light blue flowery
print you commonly see on paper towels.  Bad idea in retrospect.

Quote:
>3.  Did the last clutch grow mold before perishing?  maybe they were too
>damp.

No, not moldy.  Just horribly discolored. Greenish-brownish-yellowish-
bluish I guess you could call it.

Quote:
>Sorry, I don't know anything about these snakes in particular to be of more
>help.  Good luck.

Thanks for the leads though,
--Rick
This post is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of current or past employers.
 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Raider Bil » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Hey rick,
    A constant temp is far better than a fluctuating temp. Next time leave the eggs at a
constant temp of 80-82 degrees. It's kinda like baking, In around 60 days at 80 degrees they
should hatch. As far as your vermiculite or perlite use equal weights of water and sub straight.
You should be able to squeeze just a little bit of water from your mixture when this is done
right.
  P.S. light cycles aren't important. Eggs are laid usually in the dark anyway and hatchlings
don't see the light until they leave this egg sight.
 Good luck, RaiderBill
Quote:

> Hi all,

> I own a regular male corn (Malachai) and an Okatee (or is it Okeetee?)
> female (Emily) and they have mated a couple times.  Both times, all
> the eggs died.

> The first time, she laid them in a box and it was a couple days before
> I found them so they were all dried up.

> The next time, I got to the eggs right away and put them in a high
> humidity cage with a damp vermiculite base and a damp paper towel
> covering them, misted down a couple times a day, 12 hr light cycles,
> 74deg at night and around 80deg in the daytime.  This batch turned
> greenish blue (possibly ink from the paper towel) and rotted.

> I've looked and looked but haven't been able to find any good info on
> exactly what temperature, humidity, and ground dampness to use.  I'm
> not even sure if vermiculite is best for corn snakes.

> If anybody could point me to a good reference, I would appriciate it.

> Also, does anyone know if mixing an Okatee with a regular corn would
> increase the chance of mutated offspring?  I've been really looking
> forward to getting a ghost corn or an anerythristic out of one of
> these batches.

> Thanks,
> --Rick
> This post is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of current or past employers.

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Rick Nels » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00




Quote:
>Hey rick,
>    A constant temp is far better than a fluctuating temp. Next time leave the eggs at a
>constant temp of 80-82 degrees. It's kinda like baking, In around 60 days at 80 degrees they
>should hatch. As far as your vermiculite or perlite use equal weights of water and sub straight.
>You should be able to squeeze just a little bit of water from your mixture when this is done
>right.

Thanks for the temp info Bill, I'll do that next time.  

Quote:
>  P.S. light cycles aren't important. Eggs are laid usually in the dark anyway and hatchlings
>don't see the light until they leave this egg sight.
> Good luck, RaiderBill

I'd heard that the light cycles can have an effect on the male/female
ratio of the hatchlings.  Have you heard anything about this?

Also, I have been using a standard infrared heat lamp on a timer with
a dimmer switch.  Sunlight in the daytime.  Could it possibly be the
type of light I am using?

--Rick

This post is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of current or past employers.

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Julie Pasca » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
> I've looked and looked but haven't been able to find any good info on
> exactly what temperature, humidity, and ground dampness to use.  I'm
> not even sure if vermiculite is best for corn snakes.

> If anybody could point me to a good reference, I would appriciate it.

I have a book called "Keeping and Breeding Corn Snakes" by
Michael J. McEachern.   It is published by Advanced Vivarium
Systems, Inc.  10728 Prospect Avenue Suite G,  Santee, California
92071.   (There are other books available also.)

This fellow uses vermiculite but mentions that some breeders use
sphagnum moss.  Do not rearrange the eggs.  Do not separate
them if they are stuck together.  Do not get them wet.   The vermiculite
should be damp.   The temperature should be between 80 and
85 degrees.   Do not cover the eggs, though the container should
be covered to keep humidity up.  (And all eggs need oxygen.)

Quote:
> Also, does anyone know if mixing an Okatee with a regular corn would
> increase the chance of mutated offspring?  I've been really looking
> forward to getting a ghost corn or an anerythristic out of one of
> these batches.

No.   Most corn snake variations are caused by single recessive
genes.   Your snakes may have one of those genes, if they had
two they would show the trait.  If they both carry one of the genes
for any of the mutations it is possible that they would have babies
that recieved the gene from both parents and will display the
mutation.   To get a ghost corn both of your snakes would need to
have the genes for hypomelanism *and* anerythrisim.   For anerythristic
babies both of your snakes would have to possess the single
recessive gene for anerythrisism.   They *may* have those
genes.   But the fact that one is "normal" and one is the more
colorful normal called "Okeetee" makes no difference at all.

--Julie

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Raider Bil » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Rick,
    In regards to sex determination in neonates, the only thing that I've heard of is the temp
relation to sex determination of turtles and tortoises. Light should have no bearing on sex
determination. As I stated before, Snake eggs are usually laid in the dark, deep in rock formations
where the temp and moisture are at a constant. If the eggs were to be laid where the light could be
seen, the survival of the clutch would be at risk as the exposure to the elements could cause a
drastic change to the egg and possible dehydration to the eggs. Basically the eggs would have no
protection at all and failure to reproduce in the wild kinda defeats the purpose of the reproduction
efforts.
    A rheostat (Dimmer switch) works well if used with a heat tape. Heat tape is used in the colder
regions of the country to wrap around pipes in the winter to avoid colder temperatures from freezing
the water pipes. One caution though, don't allow the tape to cross over itself as it could short out,
even though it has a plastic covering. Crossing over itself creates a hot spot on the tape therefore
causing a short out and, possibly, a fire may result.
    One last thing that I didn't mention is that you should not rotate the eggs. In other words, if
an egg is laid on it's side the side of the egg that is facing up, should ALWAYS be left as it's
laid. Once an egg is laid the embryo has settled on the top of the yolk sack. Snake embryos are not
suspended by fibers like chicken embryos. A chicken egg can be rotated because these fibers holding
the chicken embryo don't allow the suffocation of the embryo by the yolk when the egg is rotated.
With snake eggs the the embryos are balanced on the top of the yolk. If the egg is turned or rotated
the embryo can slide off of the yolk and then become suffocated by the yolk. Nature has a way of
preventing this from happening by allowing the snake eggs to stick together and forming a cluster of
eggs making it harder for the eggs to change position therefore preventing the eggs from dying. I
hope that this is helpful . Bill
Quote:



> >Hey rick,
> >    A constant temp is far better than a fluctuating temp. Next time leave the eggs at a
> >constant temp of 80-82 degrees. It's kinda like baking, In around 60 days at 80 degrees they
> >should hatch. As far as your vermiculite or perlite use equal weights of water and sub straight.
> >You should be able to squeeze just a little bit of water from your mixture when this is done
> >right.

> Thanks for the temp info Bill, I'll do that next time.

> >  P.S. light cycles aren't important. Eggs are laid usually in the dark anyway and hatchlings
> >don't see the light until they leave this egg sight.
> > Good luck, RaiderBill

> I'd heard that the light cycles can have an effect on the male/female
> ratio of the hatchlings.  Have you heard anything about this?

> Also, I have been using a standard infrared heat lamp on a timer with
> a dimmer switch.  Sunlight in the daytime.  Could it possibly be the
> type of light I am using?

> --Rick

> This post is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of current or past employers.

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Rick Nels » Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:55:36




Quote:



>> I've looked and looked but haven't been able to find any good info on
>> exactly what temperature, humidity, and ground dampness to use.  I'm
>> not even sure if vermiculite is best for corn snakes.

>> If anybody could point me to a good reference, I would appriciate it.

>I have a book called "Keeping and Breeding Corn Snakes" by
>Michael J. McEachern.   It is published by Advanced Vivarium
>Systems, Inc.  10728 Prospect Avenue Suite G,  Santee, California
>92071.   (There are other books available also.)

I had a boook my the same author (positive of that)...possibly the
same one, but I don't remember the title.  I remember that he went
into great detail about the possible mutations and how they could be
obtained, but very little about how to incubate the eggs in the
meantime.  I've forgotten most of what he said about x ad y
chromosomes causing the mutations, hence my question about possible
mutations from an okeetee (which I've since been schooled on :) and a
reg corn.

Quote:
>This fellow uses vermiculite but mentions that some breeders use
>sphagnum moss.  Do not rearrange the eggs.  Do not separate
>them if they are stuck together.  Do not get them wet.   The vermiculite

So perhaps misting them might have been the problem?  I have tried to
follow the advice I have found, but the misting of the eggs could be
that key element that I was doing wrong.  Why is it that they should
not get wet?

Quote:
>should be damp.   The temperature should be between 80 and
>85 degrees.   Do not cover the eggs, though the container should
>be covered to keep humidity up.  (And all eggs need oxygen.)

Did that - After the first batch dried out, I learned my lesson about
keeping the humidity up.  I did have temperature fluctuations though.
Like I said earlier, mid 70s at night, low 80s in the daytime.  I
wouldn't think that would be it.  In nature you wouldn't think
conditions would be even that close to ideal.  Had the 50/50
vermiculite/water ratio, didn't rotate them, didnt peel them apart.
Now I'm starting to believe that either misting them was the problem,
or they weren't fertile in the first place...possibly the ink from the
paper towel, but I doubt that (as not all of the eggs would've been
exposed to the ink if I recall correctly).  Or was covering them with
a moist paper towel in the first place the wrong thing to do?

--Rick
This post is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of current or past employers.

 
 
 

Need info on incubating Corn Snake eggs

Post by Thea » Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Quote:



> I had a boook my the same author (positive of that)...possibly the
> same one, but I don't remember the title.  I remember that he went
> into great detail about the possible mutations and how they could be
> obtained, but very little about how to incubate the eggs in the
> meantime.

Rick, you must have had his other book which is a colour guide to the various mutations. The
books a little old , there are many other mutations available now. His other book which focuses
on care and breeding is excellent, covers the topics very well. I've been breeding corns for fun
for the last several years and it has been my bible.

Quote:
> So perhaps misting them might have been the problem?  I have tried to
> follow the advice I have found, but the misting of the eggs could be
> that key element that I was doing wrong.  Why is it that they should
> not get wet?

Yes, McEachern stresses that the eggs should not get water directly on them because it leads to
fungal infections. I'm always worried about condensation dripping from the lid of the container
onto them as well for that reason.

Quote:
> .  I did have temperature fluctuations though.
> Like I said earlier, mid 70s at night, low 80s in the daytime.  I
> wouldn't think that would be it.

Those kind of temperature fluctuations are fine. When I spoke to Rich Zuchowski who breeds corns
on a large commercial level he said that he does not keep his eggs at a steady low 80's but
rather has a night time drop in temp.

Thea